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Crumbtrail TV Forums: TV Equipment: HD TV Forum:
polaroid TV - no digital cable channels

 

 


kurt416
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Nov 6, 2009, 11:21 PM

Post #1 of 17 (20783 views)
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polaroid TV - no digital cable channels Can't Post

Polaroid TDA-03211C TV <br> <br>TV is connected to Cox cable through antenna input. No cable box is used. <br> <br>Channel scan shows 61 analog and 66 digital channels. <br> <br>I can receive all analog channels clearly. All digital channels (in the clear, QAM format) are recognized but I only get a "no signal or audio" message on the screen. <br> <br>When clicking through the channels, the scanned digital channels show up correctly as 4, 4-1, 4-2, 4-3, etc, for example. <br> <br>Polaroid tech support could not tell me if TV has QAM tuner; he said "...don't have complete specifications for this TV, it has ATSC digital tuner but probably doesn't have QAM tuner...". <br>He could not answer the question: "If there is no QAM tuner, why did the channel scan find digital channels which couldn't possibly be displayed?" <br> <br>What's wrong? Any help would be appreciated.

Edit:
After turning TV off and on again I am now able to receive all the standard definition digital channels (480i) but still no high definition channels (720p & 1080i). And I have no clue as to what would cause this.

(This post was edited by kurt416 on Nov 7, 2009, 9:39 PM)



denonjapan
Veteran

Nov 10, 2009, 7:48 AM

Post #2 of 17 (20759 views)
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Re: [kurt416] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

720p and 1080I Programs appears as live including news early of the day. Depending you city and states. It will then resume to normal 480i during mid-day to afternoon. check your listings.

denonjapan
made in japan


Ron.M
Veteran


Nov 11, 2009, 11:26 PM

Post #3 of 17 (20747 views)
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Re: [kurt416] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

kurt416;....

I strongly suggest that you wait for someone that knows what the hell they're talking about comes along , rather than "checking your listings"....

Quote
All digital channels (in the clear, QAM format) are recognized but I only get a "no signal or audio" message on the screen. <br> <br>When clicking through the channels, the scanned digital channels show up correctly as 4, 4-1, 4-2, 4-3, etc, for example.

Logic tells me that if you get 4, 4-1, 4-2, 4-3, etc, for example , you should get sound & pix...
My guess is it's a feature or menu adjustment that needs attention...
I suggest you call Polaroid back & talk to another tech who may give you better advice than the other one did...
If the TV is under warranty , you can also call for home service....

That's it from me , please wait , someone better informed than me should be along with better help...




Good Luck....


Later...Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Nov 11, 2009, 11:39 PM)


denonjapan
Veteran

Nov 12, 2009, 1:56 AM

Post #4 of 17 (20739 views)
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Re: [kurt416] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

Like I said, don't do anything stupid when it's non-technical. You know kurt "People are just too old for circumcision and they defy themeselves for not having climax as they used to". when you feel me, you know who you are????????SlySlySly LOL.
Let the people know "don't start something they can't finished"

denonjapan
made in japan



kurt416
New User

Nov 12, 2009, 3:28 PM

Post #5 of 17 (20731 views)
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Re: [denonjapan] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

Update on digital cable reception on my Polaroid TV:

I bought the TV used and have no warranty. Basic Cox analog cable (NTSC, 480i) is included in my rent. I thought it would be nice to get the local channels which are carried by Cox cable in the same resolution as over-the-air transmission (FCC 'must carry rule'). Cox is using a QAM carrier instead of the ATSC.

As explained in my earlier post, I cannot receive the HD channels on the Polaroid. The only related menu settings are 'Air' or 'Cable' neither gets me HD video or audio from cable. I do get the unscrambled standard definition digital cable channels (QAM format, 480i).

The problem is definitely with the Polaroid. I have tried a Vizio TV (less than a year old) on the same wall outlet and get all local HD channels and sub channels from Cox cable just fine.

Polaroid tech support has been of no help and so far nobody on this forum has come up with any ideas. I decided to go with a $25 Radio Shack powered indoor antenna and an A-B switch which solved my problems.

BTW, why was the formatting of my original post messed up when I edited it?

Kurt


denonjapan
Veteran

Nov 13, 2009, 2:15 AM

Post #6 of 17 (20719 views)
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Re: [kurt416] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh i see what you mean!
QAM tuner allows for reception of unscrambled digital programming set unencrypted signal by cable providers, usually local broadcast stations, Since most cable providers consider digital channels as not part of their basic cable packages, most digital channels are scrambled. Which channels are scrambled varies greatly from location to location, and can change over time. In this case, you need a digital cable box or cable card to unencrypt the PROTECTED signal.

On the other hand, Your VISIO LCD works fine of the same signal from the cable is because> the VISIO is "cable ready". Am i right?.. In the United States, any televisions that is labeled "digital cable ready" can have CABLE CARD installed by the cable provider to unscramble the protected channels. This allows subscribers to tune all authorized digital channels without the use of set-top box.
To quickly recap, NTSC is what the current broadcasters use for analog broadcasting mandated by FCC 2-13 and 14-83 while ATSC is used for digital broadcasting. QAM tuner allow you receive unencrypted digital signal from a cable provider, and speaking of your POLAROID TV? being "not cable ready" is unable to unencrypt the signal coming from the cable. Your only option of your so called HD CHANNELS are through the "AIR". or OTA.
Hope this answers your question.

denonjapan
made in japan


nickyrash
New User

Nov 17, 2009, 8:58 AM

Post #7 of 17 (20688 views)
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Re: [kurt416] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi

Thanks for sharing the useful information
________________________________________
http://www.endoacustica.com/micro_digital_video_recorder_en.htm


kurt416
New User

Nov 17, 2009, 5:42 PM

Post #8 of 17 (20682 views)
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Re: [denonjapan] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

Some comments and clarifications to denonjapan's posts:

1. As of 12 June 2009 all full-power television stations in the US have been broadcasting exclusively in digital format using the ATSC standard. Cable systems still transmit in analog NTSC standard primarily because of the large number of analog TVs still in use (and to keep customers happy who balked at paying $15/month for a set-top box). Analog service will be available from my local Cox cable until February 2012.

2. The term 'cable-ready' refers to TV sets which can receive analog NTSC cable channels without a set-top box. That's in addition to the original VHF/UHF channels 2 through 83. The cable-ready sets cannot receive either encrypted nor in-the-clear digital QAM standard cable channels which makes them useless when cable goes all digital. As far as I can remember, all TVs sold within the last 20 some years were cable ready.

3. A cablecard allows reception of encrypted cable channels. It performs the same function as a set-top box except for 2-way communication with the cable company. They don't seem to be very popular any more; when I was shopping for a new TV I found very few sets that had provisions for a cablecard.

4. All cable systems must carry local stations unencrypted; also known as the FCC "must carry" rule. The resolution is not specified. My local cable carries the stations in the same resolution (720p or 1080i) as transmitted over the air. That's why I wanted to get these stations on the Polaroid.

5. Over-the-air stations transmit with the same resolution regardless of the type of program. It does not change with time of the day and there is no need to check your listings. Of course, older programs - reruns of I Love Lucy, for example - which were made in 480i format don't look much better when converted to 1080i but they are just as funny.

Kurt


denonjapan
Veteran

Nov 18, 2009, 3:10 AM

Post #9 of 17 (20676 views)
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Re: [kurt416] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

KURT, I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE YOU BEEN FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS PRIOR TO THE TRANSITIONS!

ANSWER QUOTE:
no 1:
. You're right EXCLUSIVELY IN DIGITAL". Here your misconception:>CABLE SYSTEMS are not transmitting ANALOG PERIOD!. Instead, Cable subscribers were informed not to worry about having to loose their signal to their analog tv, JUST AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUE THE CABLE SERVICE, and with their existing box, coversion will be automatic from your cable servvice without the need to purchase a downconverter box ( take note ) downconverter box from exclusive digital signal you referred earlier. OR to purchase a digital tv. Are we in same page here? so, don't get confused!!!
no 2.>
"Digital Cable Ready" means the set has built-in technology that, when combined with a CableCARD, allows reception of encrypted digital programming from the cable company without the need for a set-top box.....And that, Integrated tuner or QAM digital tuner," when combined with a sufficiently sized and properly positioned antenna, allows reception of unencrypted digital signals provided by local "over-the-air" broadcasters.......TV SOLD FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS ARE NOT CABLE READY. There has been significant obstacles between tv manufacturers and cable industry within the 2 way agreement or how long would it take to implement. Only few manufacturers has reached agreement which are SHARP and SAMSUNG within the last 4 or 5 years....
no 3: >what is cable card? >A CableCARD is a separate module which, once inserted into the corresponding slot on a Digital Cable Ready TV, connected to the incoming coaxial cable, and properly activated by the cable company, enables the delivery of one-way digital audio/video content from the local cable operator to the TV. Base CableCARD functionality includes service authorization, signal demodulation, billing authentication and copy protection.......Its a must for bigger sets and to mantain cleaner appearance, flexible connections when choices is either OTA or CABLE. Most tv's with these functions cost more. they maybe overlook or not popular to some simply due to their unexpected price difference.
no 4: Cable systems carries local stations unencrypted but with their signals ARE restricted due to copy protection. OF COURSE! OTA or CABLE share same resolutions as broadcasted, but having you to achieve high-def signals to your polaroid tv when is not "cable ready" is IMPOSSIBLE, let alone hook the coxial input at the back of your polaroid tv, without the cable company's authorization.....Your only choice of having HIGH DEF channels to your POLAROID LCD TV BROADCASTED are FREE thru a rooftop antenna.
no 5: i hope you understand these fully: YOUR POLAROID LCD TV is equipped with ATSC DIGITAL TUNER FREE from OVER THE AIR SIGNAL ONLY.......By running signal from your cable direct to the coxial input of your POLAROID tv when there's no cablecard and high-def box authorized by your cable company. of course! high definitions channels are blocked. CABLES SIGNALS ARE COPY PROTECTED.

denonjapan
made in japan



kurt416
New User

Nov 18, 2009, 5:03 PM

Post #10 of 17 (20669 views)
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Re: [kurt416] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

Another update on my digital cable reception on the Polaroid TDA-03211C TV; a summary of a conversation with Cox Cable tech support.

"In the Phoenix, AZ metro area Cox transmits the following unencrypted channels:

1. 66 analog channels using the NTSC standard in 480i resolution (for older cable-ready analog TVs without converter box),

2. 12 local channels in 1080i resolution using QAM-256 standard (if a station transmits 720p it is converted to 1080i),

3. 39 miscellaneous digital channels in 480i resolution using the QAM-256 standard (this includes subchannels of local stations, C-SPAN, preview channels, shopping, etc).

There is a difference in how the 1080i signal is transmitted on the QAM carier vs the 480i signal. This might explain reception in cases 1 and 3 above and the blank screen in case 2.

It is possible that there is a malfunction in the Polaroid tuner. Or, more likely, the Polaroid tuner is not designed to extract 1080i information from the QAM carrier when the cable is connected diectly to the coax antenna input."

I can get all HD signals through the component inputs or using the ATSC tuner with a 'rabbit ears' antenna.
For lack of a better explanation, I tend to agree with the Cox rep that my problem, the inability to receive HD cable signals, is caused by the basic design of the Polaroid.

Kurt


denonjapan
Veteran

Nov 19, 2009, 1:39 AM

Post #11 of 17 (20666 views)
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Re: [kurt416] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

Kurt! what's the point? the more I explain to you the dumber i get LOLSlySlySlySlySly.it's like im talking to someone who hears only what you wanna hear.....Kurt! I can imagine the cox rep talking to you right now while you keep running your mouth without listening. Therefore, the representative had told a lamest explanation because you have a poor understanding.
" your tv's inability to receive hd signals is caused by the basic design? WHAT KIND OF SHIT IS THAT?HAHAHAHHAHAHA.....

denonjapan
made in japan



Ron.M
Veteran


Nov 19, 2009, 2:52 AM

Post #12 of 17 (20662 views)
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Re: [kurt416] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

kurt416;....


I said;==>

Quote
I strongly suggest that you wait for someone that knows what the hell they're talking about comes along , rather than "checking your listings"....



Going back to;==>

Quote
Logic tells me that if you get 4, 4-1, 4-2, 4-3, etc, for example , you should get sound & pix...
My guess is it's a feature or menu adjustment that needs attention...

This could be an adjustment in the "Factory Service Menu"

Then you said:==>

Quote
The problem is definitely with the Polaroid. I have tried a Vizio TV (less than a year old) on the same wall outlet and get all local HD channels and sub channels from Cox cable just fine.

That proved beyond a shadow of a doubt where the problem is....The Polaroid TV !!!! In spite of ALL the rhetoric you got from that other so called expert , you & I had this nailed from the start....

I could blow some VERY big holes in what he said,but I've had enough of him...

If you are so inclined , I would suggest you do one of the following or not....
#1 , Take the TV to a known good reputable TV repair shop & get an estimate...A good shop usually tells you about what the problem is , maybe what is causeing it & then you can either fix it or....
#2 , continue to use the $25 Radio Shack powered indoor antenna and an A-B switch which solved your problem..


Good Luck to you....Sly.....


Later...Ron.M.....Cool......
Veteran & Retired TV technician


kurt416
New User

Nov 19, 2009, 3:56 AM

Post #13 of 17 (20659 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron,


Quote
This could be an adjustment in the "Factory Service Menu"


Thanks for the hint. That's a likely possibility and I hadn't thought about it. Any idea on how I would go about accessing this menu? I contacted Polaroid tech support again and the answer was "...service info is not available to consumers."

As for the other 'expert' - if you don't have any facts, resort to profanity.

Kurt


denonjapan
Veteran

Nov 19, 2009, 4:56 AM

Post #14 of 17 (20654 views)
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Re: [kurt416] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!.....CARTELLI is about to blow up!........You're letting the veterinarian to your rescue too. The tv is totally fine, what factory service menu your looking for?.........oh what the hell, open the tv for all i can care LOL LOL LOL LOLSlySlySlySlySly

denonjapan
made in japan


Ron.M
Veteran


Nov 19, 2009, 9:24 PM

Post #15 of 17 (20623 views)
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Re: [kurt416] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

kurt416;....


Quote
Polaroid tech support again and the answer was "...service info is not available to consumers."

They , IMHO ARE justified for that stance for tons of reasons....


Quote
As for the other 'expert' - if you don't have any facts, resort to profanity.

What "other expert" ???...Laugh....


This link takes you to a websdite that is NOT favorable to Polaroid...
It has to do with your model TV & the company's way of handling matters...
It IS a negative review , one I thought you might want to see...Unsure
Please understand I'm NOT throwing salt on an open wound here...
Just a matter of informing you of some info you probably are already aware of...

http://www.viewpoints.com/...evision-review-e39a0


As for the factory menu:...
I found a possible link that "MAY" be of some help...
I will PM the link to you for obvious reasons...
A STRONG piece of advice....
CAUTION: If you do NOT follow my instructions to THE LETTER ,
you can &/or WILL cause irrepairable harm to your TV

There is a danger here that if the code works you could
inadvertantly screw up the set BEYOND repair.....


IF the method I send you works , you will see
similar graphics to what you see here;==>



BEFORE you make ANY changes to ANYTHING , you MUST
write down WHAT you are changing & WHAT you changed it to!!!


Example;...1080i Mode On to 1080i Mode to Off....
The reason for this is:..In case you screw up & adjust the wrong item , you have a written record of what the settings were before you made the adjustments & can put them back where they were before it screwed up...That's called "covering your butt"..

In the graphic above you'll notice 1080i mode that is "on"...
It takes a few steps to get there & will be explained to you at the link...


His last words were;....
""Again, please leave this stuff alone if you don't know what these things do.
Have fun!""


GOOD LUCK....Sly...


Later...Ron.M...Cool...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Nov 19, 2009, 9:28 PM)


kurt416
New User

Nov 21, 2009, 6:07 PM

Post #16 of 17 (20597 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron,

Found the factory service menu! The 'advanced' part is completely different than the one from your link.

Adjustments and settings related to the tuner are cable carrier (HRC/IRC), QAM carrier (Q-64, Q-128, etc), RF single frequency (whatever that is), a means to do a RF single frequency scan, plus some others.

Of course, there is no 'Help' button and no indication as to how the various settings might interact and specifically what function they perform.

I decided it isn't worth the time to play with with all possible combinations with the chance of doing some damage along the way.

As far as I can tell, there is nothing else wrong with this set and an external antenna has been a satisfactory solution.

Thanks again for the help,

Kurt


Ron.M
Veteran


Nov 21, 2009, 7:27 PM

Post #17 of 17 (20594 views)
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Re: [kurt416] polaroid TV - no digital cable channels [In reply to] Can't Post

kurt416;....

Quote
As far as I can tell, there is nothing else wrong with this set and an external antenna has been a satisfactory solution.

Thanks again for the help,

Sorry , I couldn't be of more help....You are most welcome....Sly...

Good Luck, & Happy Bird Day....


Later..Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Nov 21, 2009, 7:28 PM)

 
 
 


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