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Crumbtrail TV Forums: TV Equipment: Projection TV Forum:
Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off

 

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mjbxx
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Jan 28, 2011, 10:45 PM

Post #1 of 66 (9877 views)
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Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off Can't Post

Panasonic PT53WX53




The picture on the RPTV, when viewing in SD or HD, is up an slightly slanted upwards to the right as seen in pic above. I am able to do convergence properly through the user set up menu utilizing the TV remote. In addition, I see no noticeable distortion in the picture quality itself. This appears to be a geometry issue that needs to be corrected. I'd like to center the picture onto the screen. Any help will be appreciated.

Ron.M was helping someone on this thread, http://www.tv-forums.com/......no_green__P43805/, and I believe I can find a starting point here regarding yoke adjustments for horizontal and vertical geometry.


(This post was edited by mjbxx on Feb 3, 2011, 4:37 AM)



mjbxx
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Jan 30, 2011, 8:49 PM

Post #2 of 66 (9858 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

Any ideas? I do have the service manual for this TV.


Ron.M
Veteran


Jan 31, 2011, 12:05 AM

Post #3 of 66 (9856 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

mjbxx;.....


I'm the guy you talked about in your 1st post....
The thread you referenced was for a Philips/Magnavox TV.....
I'm not nowhere as familiar with Panasonic Projection TVs...
I did try to find a free manual with Google....
I found the exact manual for your set & other similiar models....
ALL , simplified versions !!!
However , some did NOT have any schematics ...
No harm , at this time they're no help...
BUT , NOT a one had ANY convergence/geometry instructions.....DAMM !!!!
Some have info about a screen overlay which I feel you don't need....
Does your manual have ANY detailed step by step instructions for convergence ???



Later....Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


mjbxx
New User

Jan 31, 2011, 5:46 PM

Post #4 of 66 (9848 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Ron.M

I have the complete Service Manual. Only problem, its in a compressed zipped file format which would make it impossible for you to read if I emailed it to you. For this reason I have a list here of all geometrical and convergence adjustments. I have the ability to upload, to this site, any and all specific adjustments you would like to see. I am curious as to what your first impressions regarding the picture in my first post. The picture seems OK but is tilted on the display.

Electronic Adjustments
17.1 NTSC Horizontal phase adjustment (H POS)
17.2 HD 1080i Horizontal phase adjustment (H POS)
17.3 Centering magnets adjustment
17.4 NTSC Vertical linearity adjustment (V-C and V-S)
17.5 HD 1080i Vertical linearity adjustment (V-C and V-S)
17.6 NTSC Vertical size adjustment (V-AMP)
17.7 HD 1080i Vertical size adjustment (V AMP)
17.8 NTSC ZOOM Vertical size adjustment (V AMP)
17.9 NTSC Horizontal size adjustment (H_POS)
17.10 HD 1080i Horizontal size adjustment (H_POS)
17.11 Trapezoid adjustment (TRAP)
17.12 NTSC Pincushion adjustment (PCC)
17.13 HD 1080i Pincushion adjustment (PCC)
17.14 NTSC Horizontal size adjustment (H WID)
17.15 HD 1080i Horizontal size adjustment (H WID)

Convergence Adjustment
18.1 Coarse adjustment mode (COARSE)
18.2 Fine adjustment mode (FINE) (convergence)
18.3 Horizontal and vertical size check
18.4 Convergence alignment template


Ron.M
Veteran


Jan 31, 2011, 6:50 PM

Post #5 of 66 (9841 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

mjbxx;....



Quote
Only problem, its in a compressed zipped file format which would make it impossible for you to read if I emailed it to you.

Where did you ever get that idea ????
Compressed zipped files are easy to open & use if you have the right program to unzip , such as 7-Zip or WinRar (?)....
How big a file is it (MBs) ????
When you open & use yours , is it ALL in one pdf package or separate pages broken up into little packets ????...



Quote
I am curious as to what your first impressions regarding the picture in my first post. The picture seems OK but is tilted on the display.

It's a bit difficult , if not impossible , to see the tilt you refer to in the pix....
We'll deal with that later....


The list you have does not help me much...
The adjustment I'm looking for isn't there....
IF I had the manual , I may be able to find it....
Most of those adjustments listed have to do with basic positioning , size & proportionment....
NOT the "tilt" adjustments I need to find & see IF this model has them electronic or mechanical.....

As far as transfering the manual goes , have you heard of OpenDrive.com
( https://www.opendrive.com/index.php?b=b )
that used to be boxstr.com...
You can upload files , pass the link to me & I can download the file....
BTW , it's FREE....
Check into it....
Let me know....




Later....Ron.M.....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


mjbxx
New User

Jan 31, 2011, 7:11 PM

Post #6 of 66 (9839 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

I have uploaded the zipped file to OpenDrive. How do I go about sending it to you?

"Where did you ever get that idea ????
Compressed zipped files are easy to open & use if you have the right program to unzip , such as 7-Zip or WinRar (?)....
How big a file is it (MBs) ????
When you open & use yours , is it ALL in one pdf package or separate pages broken up into little packets ????..."

Not computer savy at all. I do get to see the entire manual though. The file is 10,625.1 KB


(This post was edited by mjbxx on Jan 31, 2011, 7:23 PM)


mjbxx
New User

Jan 31, 2011, 7:13 PM

Post #7 of 66 (9838 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

Will this work?
https://www.opendrive.com/...793460_F11mc&sid=


Ron.M
Veteran


Jan 31, 2011, 8:22 PM

Post #8 of 66 (9831 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

mjbxx;....



Quote
How do I go about sending it to you?

With the right link I go & get it.....
Speaking of which....
This link (&/or website)(boxstr was much simpler to use) is tricky to use & find the uploaded file....
https://www.opendrive.com/...793460_F11mc&sid=
I had to open an account & eventually got the file...Unsure..
Anyone else who is interested in downloading the file will have problems...
Once I was logged in , the file magicaly showed up...
I did finally figure out how to get it.....
Apparently it's a "one-time" use type of deal....
Went back & could not find the file....Unsure....
It is a 10.3 MB file....
I am on sloooow dial-up so it's going to take awhile to download & go thru....
I'll be back later to fill you in....
Patience....Wink,....


Later...Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


mjbxx
New User

Jan 31, 2011, 8:39 PM

Post #9 of 66 (9829 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Ron.M. I look forward to hearing from you again. I will be able to upload any pictures that you require relating to the RPTV.


Ron.M
Veteran


Jan 31, 2011, 8:54 PM

Post #10 of 66 (9827 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

mjbxx;....



Quote
I will be able to upload any pictures that you require relating to the RPTV..

Thanks...
For those , I'd recommend another way that will be easier if &/or when the time comes....Wink....


Back soon.....



Later....Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Ron.M
Veteran


Jan 31, 2011, 10:19 PM

Post #11 of 66 (9819 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

mjbxx;....

OK , here we go.....
THANKS for the manual....Smile...
I could not find a simple "Tilt" adjustment of any kind....Unsure....

In the manual Chapter 18.1 is for "Coarse adjustment mode"
Go to #16 ,17 & 18....
These adjustments are for "G-Key" which normally stands for "Green Keystone" adjustment....
This will only adjust the green....
Then you have to play with the red & blue "Key" adjustments....
NOT easy for a novice such as yourself I suspect....
I do NOT recommend you try this ....
You can throw the adjustments off-kilter & you won't like the results....
ALL 3 "Key" adjustments MUST be precise or you WILL have mis-convergence issues that you may/may
not be able to correct....
Best left well enough alone.....

My best advice would be to call a reputable , trustworthy & honest TV servicer in your area that works on Panasonic big screen TVs & get an estimate & go from there.....SORRY....Unsure....
If they are Factory Trained Panasonic TV Techs , they may have some secret factory way to adjust that...

BTW;...
I know it's waaay late to be asking this question , but , I would like to know how did this pix come to being tilted in the first place ????
An answer will be appreciated....
THANKS....


GOOD LUCK.....Sly.....



Later...Ron.M....Cool...
Veteran & Retired TV technician


mjbxx
New User

Jan 31, 2011, 10:34 PM

Post #12 of 66 (9817 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

Here are some better pics to illustrate the tilt on the screen. Notice that the black bars above and below are not even and tilt upwards and to the right.



This pic shows the illustrated words tilting up and to right as well.




Have you ever seen this issue on a RPTV?


(This post was edited by mjbxx on Feb 3, 2011, 6:57 PM)


mjbxx
New User

Jan 31, 2011, 10:39 PM

Post #13 of 66 (9816 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

"BTW;...
I know it's waaay late to be asking this question , but , I would like to know how did this pix come to being tilted in the first place ????
An answer will be appreciated....
THANKS...."
I moved the TV to another part of the house.


Ron.M
Veteran


Jan 31, 2011, 11:05 PM

Post #14 of 66 (9812 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

mjbxx;....

OK , some questions....
Refering to the top pix;=>...
1) IS the pix the same size on the left side as on the right side from top to bottom ????
2) Am I seeing a black , blank area on the top left side that shrinks as it goes to the right side ???
3) Is the writing in the second pix level across the top ?????
In the pix it looks like the top is OK , but , the bottom goes up on the right side...Correct ???

Unrelated question;=>....
What method did you use to post those pix ???
BTW , They look great....



Quote
Have you ever seen this issue on a RPTV?

I have seen similar tilt problems....



Quote
I moved the TV to another part of the house.

Easy fix may be to move it back....Smile..Smile....Just kidding....



Later...Ron.M....Cool...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Jan 31, 2011, 11:08 PM)


mjbxx
New User

Jan 31, 2011, 11:08 PM

Post #15 of 66 (9811 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you of the belief that this a convergence issue and not a geometry issue? The geometrical adjustments as illustrated on pages 17.1 to 17.8 in the service manual would not fix the problem? For instance, page 17.1 corrects for horizontal position of the picture by turning the green deflection yoke until the line is perfectly horizontal. Would this adjustment at least tilt the picture to a horizontally level display?


mjbxx
New User

Jan 31, 2011, 11:25 PM

Post #16 of 66 (9806 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

1) IS the pix the same size on the left side as on the right side from top to bottom ????
Yes. The picture is not distorted in any way. Just tilted upwards and to the right.

2) Am I seeing a black , blank area on the top left side that shrinks as it goes to the right side ???
Yes. the black bar starts out relatively thick and narrows up to the right. The black bar at the bottom, athough noticeably thicker, starts out thick and becomes thicker as it goes to the right. It is a pristine picture that happens to tilt in its entirety upwards to the right.

3) Is the writing in the second pix level across the top ?????
No. It tilts upwards and to the right in its entirety.

In the pix it looks like the top is OK , but , the bottom goes up on the right side...Correct ???
Not OK. The entire image is tilted.


What method did you use to post those pix ???
Photobucket


(This post was edited by mjbxx on Jan 31, 2011, 11:41 PM)


Ron.M
Veteran


Jan 31, 2011, 11:47 PM

Post #17 of 66 (9802 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

mjbxx;.....

At this time I don't see this as a convergence issue....
Something apparently happened (Or it was sheer coincidence) when you moved the TV.....
I am not sure it's a geometry issue either , due to the fact that ALL 3 colors have moved simultaneously....
That's why I was looking for a "master tilt" adjustment....


Quote
For instance, page 17.1 corrects for horizontal position of the picture by turning the green deflection yoke until the line is perfectly horizontal.

It's perfectly your perogative as to what you do with your TV....
What I'm having a problem dealing with has to do with ALL 3 colors being out of whack at the same time....
The odds of all 3 yokes going out of adjustment at the same time are 1000 gaxillion to one & I don't see it as a cause of the problem....
IF you do the yoke adjustments , you may/may not wind up with a convergence issue you well not be satisfied with...
This is the scenario I'm trying to avoid....
Again , it's your TV...
And the adjustment you stated above ONLY corrects the green....
You MUST also adjust the red & blue...


Quote
Would this adjustment at least tilt the picture to a horizontally level display?

Yes , but it would for the green ONLY....
IF you do mess with them , be CAREFUL of the rings at the rear part of the yokes...
Those are for centering the pix ONLY....
You will have to loosen the yoke clamp & manually turn the yoke to level the green part of the pix...

BTW; I've lost ALL data for the manual sections that include 17.1~17.8 & ALL the other sections.... RATS !!!!




Later...Ron.M...Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Ron.M
Veteran


Jan 31, 2011, 11:55 PM

Post #18 of 66 (9799 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

mjbxx;.....

Based on your answers to #1 , 2 , 3 & the added question , you have neither a convergence issue NOR a geometry issue....
Something changed when you moved the set....
What happened , who knows...



GOOD LUCK.....Sly....


Later....Ron.M...Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


jts1957
Veteran


Feb 1, 2011, 12:36 AM

Post #19 of 66 (9795 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

Make sure the TV's "guts" are secure!


-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away


mjbxx
New User

Feb 1, 2011, 3:12 AM

Post #20 of 66 (9791 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

Make sure the TV's "guts" are secure!

Everything is tight and securely in place.


(This post was edited by mjbxx on Feb 1, 2011, 3:26 AM)


mjbxx
New User

Feb 1, 2011, 3:22 AM

Post #21 of 66 (9789 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron.M

Based on your answers to #1 , 2 , 3 & the added question , you have neither a convergence issue NOR a geometry issue....
Something changed when you moved the set....
What happened , who knows...

The light box is securely in place. What could possibly change other than convergence or geometry? How about the possibility that the mirror iself is somehow out of adjustment and is this even possible?


Ron.M
Veteran


Feb 1, 2011, 6:40 PM

Post #22 of 66 (9780 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

mjbxx;.....


We both agree that is impossible for the light box to have a role in the problem.....


Quote
What could possibly change other than convergence or geometry?


In your TV (& 99.9% of projection TVs) the convergence adjustments are stored electronically....
That means they are adjusted by pushbuttons on the front of the TV &/or on the remote & go right into an IC for storage....
NO screwdrivers or tools of ANY kind are used...
In THIS case;....
I suspect a mechanical shift of a control or ???....
Something that eludes us for now ....


Quote
How about the possibility that the mirror iself is somehow out of adjustment and is this even possible?

Yes , it's possible.....
Be worth checking to see if it is mounted securely....
Do so VERY CAREFULLY....
IF it IS loose , it may become further dislodged & fall to hurt you or damage the TV (Most likely made of glass)....


GOOD LUCK.........

Lateer....Ron.M.....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


mjbxx
New User

Feb 1, 2011, 9:46 PM

Post #23 of 66 (9776 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron.M

"Yes , it's possible.....
Be worth checking to see if it is mounted securely....
Do so VERY CAREFULLY....
IF it IS loose , it may become further dislodged & fall to hurt you or damage the TV (Most likely made of glass)...."

I removed the screen frame to gain access to the mirror assembly. It is attached properly with nothing obviously out of place. It is a good time to clean the mirror and optical lenses. What should I use to clean the mirror and optical lenses?


Ron.M
Veteran


Feb 1, 2011, 10:01 PM

Post #24 of 66 (9774 views)
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Re: [mjbxx] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

mjbxx;.....



I use clean used WHITE T-shirt (NO printing or logos etc) & Windex window cleaner....
Or a similar NON-ABRASIVE spray cleaner....
For the mirror , (Do first) spray LIGHTLY on the mirror surface , then LIGHTLY wipe off....
Some of the older Projection TVs had a mylar type plastic mirror....
IF yours is ANYTHING but glass , leave it alone....
Spray lightly on an area of the T-shirt (NOT on the lenses , as the liquid may seep down & cause damage) & then clean the TOP lens ONLY....
Do not apply a lot of pressure when wiping clean as the lenses ARE made out of clear plastic & you CAN scratch them even with a soft T-shirt...


Have fun & GOOD LUCK.....Sly.....



Later...Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


mjbxx
New User

Feb 1, 2011, 10:50 PM

Post #25 of 66 (9771 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Panasonic PT53WX53 geometry off [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron.M

Thanks for the cleaning mirror & optical lens procedure and mostly for staying with me on this.

"Yes , but it would for the green ONLY....
IF you do mess with them , be CAREFUL of the rings at the rear part of the yokes...
Those are for centering the pix ONLY....
You will have to loosen the yoke clamp & manually turn the yoke to level the green part of the pix... "

Page 17.3, Centering magnets adjustment, gives the procedure for adjusting the green, blue and red deflection coil until the horizontal center line is horizontal. BTW is turning the deflection coil the same as turning the deflection yoke? Step 6 includes the "Adjust also for horizontal and vertical tilt" in its procedure. How exactly do you adjust for horizontal and vertical tilt as per instructions? Can this be done without moving the centering magnets?


17.3 Centering magnets adjustment
TOP PREVIOUS NEXT
NOTE:
1080i, 480p, 480i pattern can be obtained from Panasonic’s TU-DST51 set-top box DTV decoder.
Procedures:

  1. Apply a NTSC crosshatch pattern with dots.

  2. Set VIDEO “C_OFF” DAC from 00 to 01 to project only green.

  3. Set DAC MUTE from 00 to 01 (disabling digital convergence).

  4. Loosen the deflection coil screw on the green CRT.

  5. Adjust green deflection coil until the horizontal center line is horizontal.

  6. Adjust centering magnets until the green pattern is equal on left and right. Adjust also for horizontal and vertical tilt.
    NOTE:
    Push deflection coil to top of CRT neck, then tighten deflection screw after adjusting each CRT centering and tilt.

  7. Set VIDEO “C_OFF” DAC from 01 to 03 to project only blue. Adjust deflection coil until the horizontal center line matches the pattern of the grid and is leveled.

  8. Adjust blue centering magnets until the pattern center is at the appropriate distance as indicated on the following figure. Centering magnets adjustment

  9. Set VIDEO “C_OFF” DAC from 01 to 02 to project only red.

  10. Adjust red deflection coil until the horizontal center line matches the pattern of the grid and is leveled.

  11. Adjust red centering magnets until the pattern center is at the appropriate distance as indicated on figure.

  12. Enable digital convergence by changing DAC MUTE from 01 to 00.

  13. Set VIDEO “C_OFF” DAC from 02 to 00. Following the adjustment, make sure that all deflection coils are pushed completely toward the CRT cones and that all screws are tightened.



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