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Crumbtrail TV Forums: TV Equipment: Projection TV Forum:
Sony Convergence Problem

 

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Philadelphia1
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Jun 5, 2016, 9:05 PM

Post #1 of 30 (11130 views)
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Sony Convergence Problem Can't Post

Hello folks,

I have a Sony KP-57ws510 Projection screen television manufactured in 2004. Back in February of 2013 the convergence IC's took a dump and I replaced them with OEM Sonyo IC's and the television worked great for a little over three years until last week. This time the convergence is out again but I don't suspect its the chip.

While the TV is on and I touch the chip in the back of the set I notice it is cold to the touch leading me to believe one of the pico fuses dropped out.

Sure enough after checking the power supply board with a multi-meter there was a blown 5amp pico leading to the cold chip.

I replaced the pico and the picture came back beautifully for about 20mins and the same fuse blows again?

Anyone have any suggestions as to what might be going on? and what I should troubleshoot next?



Ron.M
Veteran


Jun 6, 2016, 4:09 PM

Post #2 of 30 (11114 views)
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Philadelphia1;...


I have some questions for you;=>..
1)..
Did you replace BOTH ICs 3 years ago ???
2)..
WHERE did you get them ???
3)..
WHO made them ??
4)..
What value (amps) were the fuses replaced with ??
5)..
Does the IC that blows the fuse get excessively hot after 15/20 minutes..
Careful with that one !!!
Don't want BBQd fingers...Crazy

Later...Ron.M...Cool...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Jun 6, 2016, 4:12 PM)


Philadelphia1
New User

Jun 6, 2016, 8:36 PM

Post #3 of 30 (11105 views)
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Hello Ron,

Thanks for taking a minute out of your day to respond to my post and Thank you for your military service ! I appreciate all Vets and let them know it when I see one.

1) I did in fact replace Both IC's in parity 3 years ago and the TV worked beautifully until last week.

2) I purchased a kit from TV repair kits . com The reason I went with that company was because they strongly suggested to replace the IC's with OEM equipment and stressed that I stay away from 3rd party knock offs.

3) Tv repair kits . com said the chips were made by Sonyo

4) The pico fuse is green in color and rated at 5 amps.

5) The IC's temp is cold to the touch leading me to the pico fuse on the G board? (the vertical board...power supply)

The IC isn't getting power so I replaced the pico on the power board (pico 5001) and it only lasts about 20 mins then the pico blows again. But during that 20 mins or so the convergence is perfect.

any ideas where to start?

Thanks again for your time my friend.

-Shawn


Ron.M
Veteran


Jun 7, 2016, 3:53 PM

Post #4 of 30 (11089 views)
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Philadelphia1;...

It was MY pleasure to serve our country & thanks for your gratitude..

Need to clarify this...


Quote
5)..
Does the IC that blows the fuse get excessively hot after 15/20 minutes..
Careful with that one !!!
Don't want BBQd fingers...Crazy

Do you have another fuse to put in ???
IF so , go ahead & put it in...
Does the replaced fuse blow instantly ???
IF not , is the convergence OK ???
AFTER 15/20 minutes with a new fuse in , does the IC get excessively hot ???


Quote
4) The pico fuse is green in color and rated at 5 amps.

Did that fuse come WITH the kit ???
I have the service manual for that TV & there are 6 pico fuses for those 2 convergence ICs..
They are rated at 3.15 amps each which could be hard to find nowadays..
Most techs including myself replaced those fuses with 4 amp fuses..


(BTW:...
Those were SANYO ICs ...
Right ???

Later...Ron.M...Cool...

Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Jun 7, 2016, 3:57 PM)


Philadelphia1
New User

Jun 15, 2016, 1:37 AM

Post #5 of 30 (10961 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony Convergence Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey there Ron, hope you are having a nice week so far.

Sorry there was a gap in our recent correspondence, i haven't had time lately to work with the TV. You had asked me If I had another pico to put in and I do in fact have another fuse. I got it with the repair kit I bought 4 years ago. So tonight I replaced the dead pico on the power board (there are 2 on there) and it blew again within 4 minutes knocking the convergence out. It doesn't blow instantly, the picture is beautiful but only for several minutes. For some reason pico ps5001 keeps blowing. I did check the heat sinks, one was barely detectably warm and the other ice cold. The one that is ice cold gets its power on the circuit in which the pico repeatedly blows.

You had asked if the IC's are Sanyo's and indeed they are, at least that is what TVrepairkits.com claims. They seem to be a reputable business and lecture people not to purchase knockoffs.

Here is what their website states:

"Do not buy your chips on Ebay or other questionable sites. Over 90% of the time they are selling generic/clone chips and not original Sanyo chips. Both version look identical and unless you are well versed in detecting the fakes you will get burned. Our kits only include genuine Sanyo chips."

Anyway, now that pico keeps blowing what shall I troubleshoot next? I do have a Klein Tools multi-meter if you would like me to test anything. Your wisdom and guidance is appreciated.

-Shawn

Here are some pics of my boards and fuses....

<br>http://imageshack.com/a/img921/7240/UuoP4V.jpg <br>http://imageshack.com/a/img921/7735/QL5xM8.jpg <br>http://imageshack.com/a/img922/9061/2E6MxE.jpg <br>http://imageshack.com/a/img922/2600/D3d7Qv.jpg <br>http://imageshack.com/a/img923/3195/iMjfxI.jpg >


(This post was edited by Philadelphia1 on Jun 15, 2016, 8:11 AM)


jts1957
Veteran


Jun 15, 2016, 3:22 AM

Post #6 of 30 (10958 views)
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Quote
Ah man! I was going to post some pictures that I took of the boards, fuses etc but I cant find an attachment button? Cant post pics on this forum?

http://www.tv-forums.com/...i?post=157911#157911


-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away


Philadelphia1
New User

Jun 15, 2016, 7:55 AM

Post #7 of 30 (10956 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Sony Convergence Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks jts!


Ron.M
Veteran


Jun 15, 2016, 6:29 PM

Post #8 of 30 (10943 views)
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Re: [Philadelphia1] Sony Convergence Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Philadelphia1;...
I am moving to a new residence this Saturday..
So , I will also be delayed on future replies albeit briefly...

Have any of the 3.15 amp convergence fuses blown , on this recent issue only ???
The ones I'm referring to are "PS8001 thru PS8006"..
PS5001 (5 amp) is for - 22 vdc supply for BOTH the convergence ICs...
IF the PS8001/8006 fuses are NOT blown & have NOT blown , I suspect that the one or both convergence ICs could be bad..


Later...Ron.M...Cool...
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Philadelphia1
New User

Jun 23, 2016, 11:56 PM

Post #9 of 30 (10889 views)
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Hey what's up brother?

Hope you had an uneventful move and that you are settling in at your new place. Moving sucks, can be so stressful.

Anyway, I checked all the 3.15 Pico's and they are fine. I desoldered one of the legs on each one to remove them from circuit before testing. I checked for continuity and all were good.

One thing I noticed after closer inspection is that one the capacitors on the power supply board appears to me that it is slightly bulged? (c5018). Please have a look at the red circle in the pictures.

http://imageshack.com/a/img921/613/DjVi1D.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img922/7624/FNK9K4.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img924/1411/QB5pUh.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img924/6293/RrrEYX.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img921/3277/HFgFed.jpg

If in fact this capacitor is blown, would it explain why pico 5001 repeatedly blows? But before it blows the picture is fine?

I ordered 5 picos today from e-bay. I ran out of the 5 amp ones I need for the power board. Wont receive them for a couple of days.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Littelfuse-PICO-FAST-BLOW-Fuse-251-005-5A-5-Amp-125V-Littlefuse-Made-in-USA-/331653302449?hash=item4d3813c8b1:g:LPwAAOSwLVZV3nq-

What are your thoughts. Thanks for your time Ron, its appreciated.

-shawn


Ron.M
Veteran


Jun 24, 2016, 4:11 PM

Post #10 of 30 (10877 views)
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Philadelphia1;....

Moved in , yes...
Unpacked & settled in . HELL NO !!!
But every day it gets better...

Back to our regularly scheduled program...Wink

NICE Work !!!

C5018 is on the negative 22 vdc line to the convergence ICs...

YES , IF that cap IS bad , could be the reason you are blowing PS5001 since that fuse IS on the -22 vdc line...
I'd also recommend replacing C5019 as they work together..
IF you have OR can get an ESR meter or a cap checker , it would be a good idea to also check the following caps;=>..
C5027=470 mfd @ 35 vdc
C5028=470 mfd @ 35 vdc

C5027 is another -22 vdc cap that very well could also be bad...

Good Luck....

Have a GREAT day & weekend...Smile


Later...Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Philadelphia1
New User

Jun 28, 2016, 1:02 AM

Post #11 of 30 (10820 views)
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Hey my friend Ron,

Happy Monday. Hope you had a nice weekend and are done unpacking your last boxSmile

Got some good news and some bad news....the good news is that those cappys you want me check are fine. Just have to replace the one that is bulged.

Now the bad news....I think I may have pulled a pad on ps5001? not sure? I attached a photo and i'm sure your trained eye will definitively know. The repetitive soldering and resoldering I assume damaged the pad, cause when I solder it keeps flowing north to another soldered joint and I'm not sure if its supposed to do that. Perhaps you will know.

If in fact the pad is missing or damaged beyond repair is there any other remedy? I've read about bridging the connection but have never done that before.

Please forgive my ignorance and I thank you for your patience. I'm a computer tech by trade and have only dabbled on this side of electronics (soldering circuits and understanding schematics, which tend to be somewhat intimidating and confusing to me).

Nonetheless, I'm eager to learn and enjoy the mentoring process.Smile

I attached a pic of my new problem. What are your thoughts?

http://imageshack.com/a/img923/9673/WsAtT9.jpg

Thanks buddy!


Ron.M
Veteran


Jun 28, 2016, 4:00 PM

Post #12 of 30 (10801 views)
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Philadelphia1...

From that pix it's hard to tell what that is or was !!!..
That is what appears to be where one end of the 5 amp -22 vdc B+ fuse (PS5001) goes...
WHAT was in that hole before you started ???
Can you CAREFULLY clean around that hole & retake the pix ???
What I'd suggest you do is use an ohm meter to read the following;..
1st off , IS PS5001 installed thru the PC board at BOTH ends ???
IF so , read ohms from the fuse to the "-" (negative) end of C5027 & the "-" end of C5018...
You should read "0" or VERY LOW ohms BOTH ways...

Later...Ron.M...Cool
Veteran & Retired TV technician


jts1957
Veteran


Jun 28, 2016, 4:23 PM

Post #13 of 30 (10798 views)
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See where the non damaged solder pad foil runs. Its either Pin 4 of CN5004 OR to L5008.


-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away


Ron.M
Veteran


Jul 9, 2016, 3:53 PM

Post #14 of 30 (10709 views)
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Philadelphia1;....

It's coming up on ALMOST TWO WEEKS WITHOUT a reply !!!!
What it the status on this TV ???
Did you replace the defective cap ???
Did you figure out the "damaged pad" ???
Did you trash it out ???
Is the TV fixed ???

We gave you the courtesy of our help...
You should give us the same courtesy & reply..

THANKS...

Later...Ron.M....Cool
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Jul 9, 2016, 3:54 PM)


Philadelphia1
New User

Jul 14, 2016, 2:46 AM

Post #15 of 30 (10614 views)
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Hiya Ron,

I apologize for the prolonged delay in communication. Iíve been unbelievably busy for the last several weeks and haven't a minute to myself. I absolutely want to bring this project to fruition and Iím very appreciative and grateful for the time you and others on this forum have taken out of their day to help me! I really enjoy this television hope to fix it.

So here is an update:

-I slapped in the new capacitor at (C5018) and desoldered each leg on ps8001 thru ps8006 and tested them for both continuity and Ohms and they all came back OK.

-I Soldered in the new 5 amp Pico (PS5001) and it immediately traced to another component of which Iím not sure if they are supposed to be bridged? So I decided to go with it and see what happens. It appeared as if there was still a quarter pad left at PS5001 and was shared with this other component located at L5008?

-http://imageshack.com/a/img924/5883/LuYW8O.jpg

Itís hard to tell by looking at the schematic in the service manual but I have an idea these two paths are linked either by foil (now damaged) or NOW by my solder bridge.

-http://imageshack.com/a/img922/5820/5VQyFg.jpg

-After soldering in the new Pico i busted out the Ohm meter and traced the foil path from the negative terminal of capacitor C5018 down to the lead of the 5 amp pico (PS5001) and get no resistance. Then I tested from the opposite lead of the pico down to the negative terminal of the capacitor located at C5027 and too get no resistance. I also tested for continuity and that was good as well.

-The next thing I did was fire up the TV to see if the pico would hold, assuming it would immediately blow if the bridged soldering was not to be? So far the fuse has held with no problems. Is it correct to assume this is ok and not a problem?

-While the TV was on I tested DC Voltage and Iím getting -22.25 at Pico PS5001 and +21.83 at PS5002, both good signs so far I assume?

-The final thing I did, was let the TV run for 1 hour and tested IC 8001 with a thermal couple and it came back lukewarm at 100 degrees, while IC 8002 came back at a much hotter 121 degrees.

The convergence is better but definitely still out. Iím guessing that the convergence chip at IC 8001 is the culprit due to the fact that it is much cooler than IC 8002. Just a guess? I assume the next step in this process is to order the new convergence ICís?

Would you happen to know a reputable website that sells genuine Sanyo STK392-560ís? Iím hearing that they are few and far between, and many of the ones being championed as Sanyoís are in fact cheap Chinese knock-offs. Any suggestions as where to purchase them is welcomed. Also, can I get away with just replacing 1 of the ICís?

Let me know your thoughts and if there are any additional tests you want me to perform?

Thanks again for your help and time!Smile

-Shawn


Ron.M
Veteran


Jul 15, 2016, 7:09 PM

Post #16 of 30 (10523 views)
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Philadelphia1;....



Quote
The convergence is better but definitely still out.

How was it before all this drama started ???
Was it only one color ???
Was one or more colors out ???
Which color(s) are out ???


The solder bridge & what you said about fuses , L5008 & C5018 etc , lead me to believe that the solder bridge is CORRECT & OK....
To verify , go to CN5004 pin #4 on the "D" board or CN8013 pin #4 on the "G" board & see if the -22 vdc is there...
IF it is , which convergence IC is running hot (121 degrees)...
How bad is the convergence out ???


Later...Ron.M...Cool...
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Philadelphia1
New User

Jul 16, 2016, 12:30 AM

Post #17 of 30 (10500 views)
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Happy Friday Ron,

Nothing has really changed since all this drama started. One night way back I was watching tv and "poof" the convergence went out which led me to you.

At one point in the beginning I was replacing the 5amp pico and the picture would hold and was perfect for only 20 minutes and "bang" the pico would blow out. This happened roughly 3-4 times. Then I found the bad Cap which in combination with a screwy IC was causing the 5amp pico to repeatedly blow. Now that they are fixed and holding (cappy and fuse) the convergence remains out.

I let the TV run for 1 hour and tested IC 8001 with a thermal couple and it came back lukewarm at 100 degrees, while IC 8002 came back at a much hotter 121 degrees.

It's hard for me to tell which colors are out definitively? So I provided a link to youtube and a video of my set, perhaps you can derive which colors are out. I'm betting its all of them?

Also I did the DMM testing at both CN5003 and C5018 and they are indeed coming back at -22.25 vdc

Hope the video helps.

https://youtu.be/XNAqCCW9byU

Thanks!

-Shawn


Ron.M
Veteran


Jul 16, 2016, 4:30 PM

Post #18 of 30 (10433 views)
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Re: [Philadelphia1] Sony Convergence Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Philadelphia1;.....

It looks like you need BOTH convergence ICs replaced....
Give me some time to track down some genuine SANYO ICs...
I'll get back ASAP ....
In the mean time , you might want to take a look at ALL the power supply voltages that feed the convergence ICs...
Just to make sure that they are getting ALL the proper voltages ...
Let me know what you find...


Later...Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Jul 16, 2016, 4:38 PM)


Philadelphia1
New User

Jul 16, 2016, 8:01 PM

Post #19 of 30 (10415 views)
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I was guessing that both IC's might be out. When you say check all the power supply voltages that feed the convergence IC's do you mean the voltages of Pin's 1-9 At CN5003 and C5018 and then make sure they correspond to the voltages listed in the service manual?

Thanks for helping me find me find OEM IC's. Take your time no rush.

-Shawn


Ron.M
Veteran


Jul 17, 2016, 3:45 PM

Post #20 of 30 (10313 views)
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Re: [Philadelphia1] Sony Convergence Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Philadelphia1;...

I should have worded that a bit more clearer..

Check the +22 vdc & the -22 vdc at connector CN8013 pins 6 & 4 respectively...
That will be on the "D" board that has the convergence ICs on it..
IF those voltages are OK , C5018 & the others should be OK also...
CN5003 is NOT involved !!!
Typo ???
When there is one convergence IC bad , BOTH are replaced ...
If one goes bad , usually the other is not far behind...


Later...Ron.M...Cool...
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Philadelphia1
New User

Jul 18, 2016, 6:40 AM

Post #21 of 30 (10243 views)
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Hiya Ron,

Checked the +22 vdc & -22 vdc on the D board connector @ CN8013 pins 6 & 4.

http://imageshack.com/a/img922/9544/d9IpUa.jpg


Here is a rundown of my connection and the results of CN8013:


pin 1 = -17.7 vdc

pin 2= GND

pin 3= +16.3 vdc

pin 4 = -22.24 vdc

pin 5 = GND

pin 6 = +21.73 vdc

pin 7= GND

pin 8 = N/C

pin 9 = 134.5 vdc


Thanks Ron,

-Shawn


Ron.M
Veteran


Jul 18, 2016, 11:15 PM

Post #22 of 30 (10231 views)
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Re: [Philadelphia1] Sony Convergence Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Philadelphia1;....

All those voltages are good..
THANKS...


I did a search for STK392-560 conv ICs..
The best deals etc seem to be at eBay...

Here are some suggestions for replacement ICs;=>....

#1)...
http://www.ebay.com/...p2141725.m3641.l6368
2X STK 392-560 SANYO IC USA SELLER SAME DAY SHIP FROM CA.
eBay item number: 162057576924
Seller : flipdorite
Brand: Sanyo
$19.90 FREE s&h but seller does not warranty (Accept returns)...


#2)..
http://www.ebay.com/...7:g:lbYAAOSwDNdVhjuR
STK392-560 STK392 SANYO NEW CONVERGENCE IC's 2 PCS FL usa
eBay item number: 272276816359
Seller : bpelectronic
Brand: Sanyo
Price; US $24.00
Returns: 14 days money back, buyer pays return shipping

#3)...
http://www.ebay.com/...6:g:A-8AAOSwuWVWFDvz
LOT OF 2 ORIGINAL NEW IC SANYO STK392-560 + HEAT SINK COMPOUND
eBay item number: 121767551910
Seller : skycart
Returns: Seller does not offer returns.
Brand: Sanyo
Price: US $30.95

For the best value , I'd go with #3...
His starting price is $30.95
BUT...
His last sale was on May-08-16 for $30.95...
His ONLY sale prior to that one was on Feb-08-16...
That was a "Make Offer" sale...
So , he's not selling that many & may take a lower price...
Got to the listing & "Make Offer" of $25.00..
If you two can make a deal , you'll be better off as the heat sink compound IS a NECCESSITY...



Let me know what you decide to do...


Later...Ron.M....Cool...
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Philadelphia1
New User

Jul 20, 2016, 11:34 PM

Post #23 of 30 (10213 views)
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Hello My friend Ron,

Thanks for taking the time to help me find a set of chips. I contacted all the sellers to inquire that these IC's are in fact legitimate original Sanyo convergence IC's. I've read on the internet to be leery of IC's listed on E-Bay and that it's difficult to find a legitimate pair because Sanyo no longer makes the chips? What are your thoughts?

Anyway, thanks again for doing the research and I will most likely go with your suggestion to select seller #3 "SkyCart" I will wait until I hear back from the sellers before making a final decision. I will keep you posted!

-Shawn


Ron.M
Veteran


Jul 21, 2016, 4:06 PM

Post #24 of 30 (10205 views)
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Re: [Philadelphia1] Sony Convergence Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

..

Philadelphia1;...



Quote
it's difficult to find a legitimate pair because Sanyo no longer makes the chips? What are your thoughts?

I've heard that too !!!
But , it seems that they (Sanyo) may have made a huge stockpile of them or they did not sell as they expected...
Have no facts or data to back either theory up...
So , sometimes you have to take a leap of faith...
The 3 eBay sellers have "Sanyo" in their ad listing...
They also have "Sanyo" in the description..
That's why I chose those three...
eBay does NOT take kindly to false advertising...
Sellers can be banned from eBay when caught...
IF they turn out to be generics , let me know & I'll show you how to get your money back in FULL...

Good Luck....Wink



Later...Ron.M...Cool...
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Philadelphia1
New User

Jul 30, 2016, 12:34 AM

Post #25 of 30 (10023 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony Convergence Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Happy Friday Ron! I hope you are enjoying the start of your weekend!

So I ordered and received the STK392-560 convergence chips and installed them last night. The convergence is better but the screen is still bowed inward. Frown

Before I disconnected all my cables I numbered each one with tape and corresponding numbers on the board. So I'm highly confident that it is not a mistake such as a misplaced or incorrect connection on the convergence board. I double checked everything twice. So with that ruled out where shall I focus next?

Including a slightly better picture I now can manually move the convergence configuration but I'm unable to get it to a full alignment. The flash focus fails to fully align the convergence too. While people look much better on the television, the text is way out of alignment.

Here is a YouTube Video...have a look at the alignment.

-https://youtu.be/4ABy9b-15bc

Also some pictures of the convergence configuration screen.

-http://imageshack.com/a/img923/2295/cfsb0W.jpg
-http://imageshack.com/a/img922/5633/Dj7pnj.jpg

I just tested the voltage on the power supply going to the convergence board @ pico P5001 and get -22.5 vdc and +22 vdc @ pico p5002.

When I had the old chips in I would only get one really hot chip while the other was lukewarm. NOW with the new chips in they both are testing at about 120 degrees....so I know they are both getting power.

What are your thoughts? Any of this make sense?

Thanks Ron!

-Shawn In Pa

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