Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks


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randomdes
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Feb 28, 2010, 7:38 PM

Post #1 of 46 (6290 views)
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Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks	Can't Post

Hi,

I recently got this sony 57" RP with hopes of fixing it. I have the service manual, and it says that 8 blinks means HV error.

When i turn it on, the blue crt comes on within 1 second, and the other 2 fade in slowly coming to full power after 6 seconds or so. I sometimes get a brief (0.5 second) shot of white noise from the speakers. Right as the red and green crts come up to brightness, it shuts down and gives the 8 blink code.

Most people on the 'net seem to suggest either adjusting the guns with the pots behind the grille to bring the voltage down a touch. No dice. Hope i didnt break anything by messing with them. :/

I was wondering if there's any more troubleshooting or testing i can do before ordering a new flyback, or HV distribution block.

I'm no TV tech, but I know my way around circuits and have DMMs and scopes and such.

Thanks for your help

Ron.M
Veteran

Feb 28, 2010, 9:41 PM

Post #2 of 46 (6287 views)
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Re: [randomdes] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

randomdes;......

Since you are getting blue rather quick (1 sec , you said , is WAAAY too fast..) & the red & green are coming on it appears normally (6 sec also QUITE fast !!!) , my suspicion would be a bad blue CRT or associated components...
Did you happen to see if there was any skinny white lines in the blue screen before the TV shut off ???

Try this;=>..
Remove the blue CRT module & hang it in space away from any other wiring or metal...
Turn on the TV & see if the white noise or sound stays on...
You may not see any green or red come up....
This is normal for Sony's to act this way....
It's due to an Ik circuit....
IF it does , the blue CRT or associated components are the problem....

I would NOT order a flyback or distribution block as since you get brightness , that means those two units are working correctly....
The TV is shutting down for a different reason....

GOOD LUCK.....

Later...Ron.M..... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Feb 28, 2010, 9:45 PM)

randomdes
New User

Feb 28, 2010, 11:02 PM

Post #3 of 46 (6281 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Alright. Thanks. I'll take a look at it as soon as the game is over. 2-1 canada so far. yeeah :D

I'm assuming this means you think its arcing out and that's what makes it shut down. I'd believe that, as i do hear a little bit of a pop as it goes down. Not what i'd usually associate with a HV arc, but there is a bit of a pop.

I'll report back shortly.

randomdes
New User

Mar 1, 2010, 12:47 AM

Post #4 of 46 (6275 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

By CRT do you mean the entire module with deflection yoke, lens et al?

If so, do I have to keep everything connected? There are some wires that won't reach if the picture tube isn't mounted and is safely away from other things.

Problem cables are the heater and +200 daisy-chain cable to supply power to the RG tubes and what appears to be the yoke input cable.

There's no way i can see to hang the tube in free space with those cables connected. Perhaps I'm missing something?

randomdes
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Mar 1, 2010, 1:01 AM

Post #5 of 46 (6274 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

Did you happen to see if there was any skinny white lines in the blue screen before the TV shut off ???

I get a blue glow, might have blue lines on it. Then as the other 2 guns power up, i see a white screen with curving R,G,B lines on it. Right as that comes up to brightness it clicks off.

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 1, 2010, 1:53 AM

Post #6 of 46 (6269 views)
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Re: [randomdes] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

randomdes;....
Do NOT remove ANYTHING till I get back to you....Am doing some research..... Wink

....

Later....(Not too much , I hope)....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jts1957
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Mar 1, 2010, 1:56 AM

Post #7 of 46 (6266 views)
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Re: [randomdes] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

Remove the blue CRT module & hang it in space away from any other wiring or metal...

He means unplug just the CRT neck board and let it hang in mid-air. Wink

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

randomdes
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Mar 1, 2010, 1:58 AM

Post #8 of 46 (6265 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Sure. Thanks.

I also have the service manual if that is of any assistance. Though I assume you likely have it as well :D.

I guess I'll get some time to study for my control systems exam afterall :D.

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 1, 2010, 4:54 AM

Post #9 of 46 (6255 views)
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Re: [randomdes] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

randomdes;....

Sorry about the delay....
I did not have your specific service manual....
I do now....Since I'm on a slllooooowwwww dial-up , it took awhile to download....

1st , let me answer the previous posts;=>...

Quote

By CRT do you mean the entire module with deflection yoke, lens et al?

NOPE.....

Quote

There's no way i can see to hang the tube in free space with those cables connected. Perhaps I'm missing something?

That is correct & yes , you did miss something....You missed the word "module"....
The CRT module is the small little circuit board at the bottom of the CRT....
It just slips down off the CRT... Then move it aside so it's not near any other wiring or metal....

Quote

I get a blue glow, might have blue lines on it. Then as the other 2 guns power up, i see a white screen with curving R,G,B lines on it.

It would be nice to see the curving R,G,B lines....
Is there a way you can take pix & post them ????

From jts1957;=>..

Quote

He means unplug just the CRT neck board and let it hang in mid-air. Wink

Yep , that's exactly it.... Sly

.....

OK , I'm caught up.... Sly

....

The reason for the delay is this statement set bells off;=>..

Quote

By CRT do you mean the entire module with deflection yoke, lens et al?

This tells me that you lack some or all electronic/TV repair experience...
What I intended to do was post a pix of what I want you to disconnect ie, the CRT module & NOT the CRT "assembly"....
We seem to have gotten past that while I was downloading the manual...
If not , let me know....
So , go ahead & remove the blue CRT module as I requested in post #2 & post results....

I seriously doubt that the flyback is causing any trouble....
Also , I suspect that 8 blinks is from an older problem....
We need to clear all the old error codes , so we can get fresh codes , if any....
You WILL need the original Sony remote....

The following is from a website that has all the codes for Sony Projection TVs=>.....

""After you repair the unit, you MUST clear the values on this diagnostic screen. These codes do not reset themselves after the fault is corrected, so if you don't clear them, you'll be seeing "old" fault codes the next time you enter this screen. Clearing is done by going into the service mode (display, channel, 5, volume plus, then power ). Press 8 and Enter, which returns everything to the factory preset condition.""
The above "may" not have been done after past repairs....
Please note the "coma" between "channel" & the number 5...
I think this is an error (typo)....
If memory serves , there's NO channel button on the original remote....
They're NOT reffering to Chan + or Chan- , which is on your remote....
So , after you press "display" , press number 5 , etc...
Start this with the set OFF ..... After you finish , turn the TV off at the front panel (NOT with the remote)....
Unplug the TV for a few minutes , plug it back in & turn it on....
Count blinks , if any , & post....

Have a GREAT evening.... Sly

....

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

randomdes
New User

Mar 1, 2010, 5:31 AM

Post #10 of 46 (6253 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

This tells me that you lack some or all electronic/TV repair experience...

True, but this is what should have set off those bells :)

Quote

I'm no TV tech, but I know my way around circuits and have DMMs and scopes and such.

I've never worked on a TV, but have worked on simpler vaccum tube circuits (radios, etc), as well as various other electronics and have a bachelors degree in electrical engineering.

I guess the point I'm trying to make, is yes I'm quite ignorant, but I'm a quick learner ;)

Anyway, I pulled off the CRT board and the set behaves exactly the same, except, of course, no quick blue. But other 2 fade in slowly, then it powers down.

I do not have a remote at the moment, but how i read that paragraph, that operation only clears the error code list on the OSD. I don't believe the blink codes are persistent, they just get logged on the OSD error page.

Either way, we're in no condition to do anything with the OSD since the set won't stay on for me :).

I'll find a way to photograph the lines I get, and get back to you.

randomdes
New User

Mar 1, 2010, 6:02 AM

Post #11 of 46 (6251 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

I hope these images aren't too large, as I understand you're on dialup. I got them down to 15-20k each.

Alright here is what the TV looks like right before it shuts down

I had to cycle it a few times to manage to capture it properly. When i turn it on, I immediately get this:

which then fades out, and fades into the first image.

tbh, I'm not sure how normal either of these are, as I've never been lucky enough to own a projection tv before. Cool

jts1957
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Mar 1, 2010, 7:06 AM

Post #12 of 46 (6247 views)
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Re: [randomdes] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Where are the Screen (G2) controls set to currently?

You could try marking them (so they can be returned to near-original position) and turning them all counter-clockwise and trying to fire up the set to hear/see if any improvement. Cool

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

randomdes
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Mar 1, 2010, 7:37 AM

Post #13 of 46 (6241 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Screen controls came midway.

All the way left -- No more coloured lines, screen comes up white. Still shuts down as brightness comes up.

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 2, 2010, 12:21 AM

Post #14 of 46 (6225 views)
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Re: [randomdes] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

randomdes;....

I need to make this a lot clearer for you....

Quote

I do not have a remote at the moment, but how i read that paragraph, that operation only clears the error code list on the OSD. I don't believe the blink codes are persistent, they just get logged on the OSD error page.

Not having a remote is going to be a major problem....

From the 1st part of the article I have:....

Quote

Here is a list of the problems that might have occurred indicated by the number of blinks. The words in parentheses are those, which you will see for each of these faults on a diagnosis screen described later in this article.

Here's the link where you can read the full story....

http://www.ecoustics.com/tl/15444/

In short , the blink codes ARE kept in memory & also for an OSD...
They are cleared by using the proceedure I gave you....

Quote

Either way, we're in no condition to do anything with the OSD since the set won't stay on for me :).

Did you happen to read this;=>...

Quote

Start this with the set OFF <<<..... After you finish , turn the TV off at the front panel (NOT with the remote)....

When you press "power" , using the sequence I gave you , is when the TV turns ON....
You then only have to press #8 & enter....
By the time it turns itself off or you do it , the memory IS cleared....
You need to seriously consider getting an original Sony remote....
Beg , borrow or steal one.... Sly

..

Some possibilities are;....
http://www.remotecontrolwarehouse.com/SONY/RM-Y909.html

$29.95 +s&h

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p4684.m38.l1313&_nkw=rm-y909&_sacat=See-All-
Categories

eBay , lots of choices & prices...

http://www.remotehound.com/...-rm-y909-p33356.html

$29.95 +s&h , but ,if TV is not fixed within 30 days ,will give no-hassle refund...

Those are just a few suggestions...
If you decide to buy a remote , please understand I can NOT guarantee we will fix the TV....
For obvious reasons , we do not know whats wrong at this time &/or IF parts are still available....
Do so at your own risk...YOUR call....

Quote

I hope these images aren't too large, as I understand you're on dialup. I got them down to 15-20k each

BTW;...GREAT pix....
Thanks for your consideration.....
However , I only have the problem downloading large files or programs.....
Your manual is 16MB...Downloading at 5Kbs , well , you do the math...Took awhile.... Unsure

....
This forum & others are no problem for me to load....
So no need to worry about your uploads....

Quote

tbh, I'm not sure how normal either of these are, as I've never been lucky enough to own a projection tv before. Cool

Neither of those are "normal"....

From jts1957;=>...

Quote

You could try marking them (so they can be returned to near-original position) and turning them all counter-clockwise and trying to fire up the set to hear/see if any improvement. Cool

I assume this appies to the above;=>...

Quote

All the way left -- No more coloured lines, screen comes up white. Still shuts down as brightness comes up.

IF with the screen controls turned ALL the way CCW , you turned the TV on & you are still getting a lot of briteness & it goes off , then flyback , distribution block & 8 blinks are NOT the problem....

I suspect a voltage imbalance at the CRT sockets...
In your service MANUAL LOOK AT PAGE #63....
On it are the diagrams for all 3 CRT modules....
Pick any one color that will be easy for you to get at on the set to
check the +200 vdc & +12 vdc coming into them....
We really need a new code to get an idea of where this is at....

Please post results...

Thanks.... Sly

.....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

randomdes
New User

Mar 2, 2010, 2:40 AM

Post #15 of 46 (6221 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Alright. I stole the remote from the trinitron in the living room (forgot about that being a real sony remote) and it also seems to work for this set (turns it on and off anyway).

I went through the reset operation. TV turns on when i hit power while going through that sequence. Still powers down with 8 blinks. Think theres any chance i need to reprogram it for this TV? My understanding is generally they work or they don't.

Measured TP7201 (+200 on green driver board) and I'm getting 0v with respect to chassis ground (tested good ground path with ohmmeter).

Still looking around for a proper test point for 12, if i dont see one shortly, I'll find something to touch. Just nice to have proper points so i can use clips and get my hand out from in there.

I'll also look for a place to test the 200v line on the D board, see if it doesn't exist, or if there's a wiring issue.

Thanks for your continued support Wink

(This post was edited by randomdes on Mar 2, 2010, 2:43 AM)

randomdes
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Mar 2, 2010, 2:53 AM

Post #16 of 46 (6217 views)
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Re: [randomdes] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

R8225! -- D board, block diagram 2/3, upper right corner.

215V on the input, 0v on the output.

I'll check and see if it looks like anything shorted in order to bring it down. Do these usually fail, or is it likely the sign of a problem elsewhere?

edit: with CN8022 disconnected (to isolate power supply), resistance from output side of R8225 to ground is 12.6Mohm. So no shorted caps -- at this voltage anyway :).

With driver boards reconnected, i get about 20k -- seems reasonable too.

I'll wait for your input on how to proceed next.

(This post was edited by randomdes on Mar 2, 2010, 3:07 AM)

Ron.M
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Mar 2, 2010, 4:07 AM

Post #17 of 46 (6211 views)
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Re: [randomdes] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

randomdes;.....

Quote

Still powers down with 8 blinks. Think theres any chance i need to reprogram it for this TV? My understanding is generally they work or they don't.

No , you don't reprogram a Sony remote for a Sony TV...
They're locked in....
If the remote has a "display' & "enter" which I bet it does , you are in good shape....

Quote

Measured TP7201 (+200 on green driver board) and I'm getting 0v with respect to chassis ground (tested good ground path with ohmmeter).

Looks like we're getting somewhere.... Sly

....I assume you had your meter hooked up & then turned on the TV...Right ????

Find a location for the 12 vdc & verify its OK....At the CRT socket end & not the power supply output....

Quote

R8225! -- D board, block diagram 2/3, upper right corner. & Do these usually fail, or is it likely the sign of a problem elsewhere?

More than likely a problem elsewhere....

But....

Quote

With driver boards reconnected, i get about 20k -- seems reasonable too

I agree...

According to my schematic R8225= 1 ohm 1/2 watt....
Replace it with EXACTLY a 1 ohm 1/2 watt flameproof resistor...
If you don't have one , Radio Shack or equivilent
electronic supply store should have them...
Do NOT increase the wattage or ohms....
That is a protect resistor...
Hook up your meter...
If you can visably see the resistor while you turn on the TV , go for it...
If not , do a lot of sniffing....
My concern is it may cook or fry & you'll smell it or see it....
See what the voltage is...
If it's 200 vdc , then it should be OK....
See what's out onscreen....
There may not be any briteness...No worry....
Does the TV stay on ???

Post results.....

GOOD LUCK.....

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

randomdes
New User

Mar 2, 2010, 7:44 AM

Post #18 of 46 (6206 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Alright, Ive done some more circuit tracing and have figured out what brought down the HV rail.

+200 got pulled to ground on the red driver board via C7104,C7107 or the IC. I don't have an iron here, so I'll pull off the caps tomorrow and see which. Either way, theres a 3 ohm path to ground through one of those paths.

This short blew out 10 ohm FPRD R7301 on the blue board. There's no power rating on the schematic. The one I pulled out looks like a 1/8 watt.

And of course it also blew that 1 ohm 1/2 watt FPRD we found earlier.

I'll report back tomorrow evening.

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 2, 2010, 8:35 PM

Post #19 of 46 (6201 views)
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Re: [randomdes] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

randomdes;....

GOOD JOB !!!!

On both the red & blue boards I bet you have bad ICs...
If you have an ESR meter you can check the lytic caps on the modules....
I suspect they'll check OK....
Doesn't hurt to check them , tho.....

I'm fairly certain you'll find 2 ICs bad...
One on the blue & one on the red board...
That being the case , I strongly reccommend you replace all 3 ICs...
Who knows how long the 3rd one will last...

FPRD R7301 in the parts list shows it as 1/4 watt....
That one you can use a 10 ohm 1/2 watt resistor & be safe with it...

Here's some IC source possibilities;....

Altho the parts list shows TDA6120Q/N2/S1 , I
"googled" TDA6120Q & got the following;...

This company is unknown to me...
However , the ICs are $4.00 + s&h....
Your call....

http://audiolabga.com/...jkmqACFQk65QodZ270eg

This company is in Canada...However , the ICs are $2.95 USD ea...+s&h....
Your call....

http://richtechparts.com/i-993-TDA6120Q.html

This company is US based...I've done bussiness with them before....
They are reputable , trustworthy & reliable....
The ICs there are $5.46 ea +s&h...
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/search.aspx?K=TDA6120Q

I do not think the N2/S1 part of TDA6120Q/N2/S1 is that critical...
When crossing the IC , I get TDA6120Q , so the ones above should work just fine....

And don't forget your resistors.... Wink

....

Veteran & Retired TV technician

randomdes
New User

Mar 3, 2010, 2:32 AM

Post #20 of 46 (6196 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Just confirmed. Video amp IC is dead on red board. I'll see if I can pick a couple up locally tomorrow. If not I'll place an order.

I'll let you know what happens once this IC is replaced.

I'm already a little worried about the screen calibration routine detailed in the service manual. I have a scope which, while a technical marvel, hasn't been calibrated since the 80s and I know the vertical amp is out of calibration.

(bet you haven't seen one of these in a while: http://www.pithed.org/oink/scope.jpg)

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 3, 2010, 3:46 AM

Post #21 of 46 (6192 views)
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Re: [randomdes] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

randomdes;....

Quote

Just confirmed. Video amp IC is dead on red board.

When you say "dead" , you mean shorted. don't you ????

Quote

I'll see if I can pick a couple up locally tomorrow

GET 3 !!!

Quote

I'm already a little worried about the screen calibration routine detailed in the service manual.

Let's NOT get all kinky & wanting to play engineer about calibration.... Unsure

...
After you install the ICs , post back & I'll give you an easy way to setup the tracking etc...OK... Wink

...

Quote

(bet you haven't seen one of these in a while:

Nope , sure haven't...Looks good tho....
You're not planning on using that on this TV are ya ???
OR are ya ???

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

randomdes
New User

Mar 3, 2010, 5:45 AM

Post #22 of 46 (6188 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

When you say "dead" , you mean shorted. don't you ????

5 ohm path +200 to ground. Either dead, or damn thirsty. Wink

Quote

GET 3 !!!

As long as they're cheap Tongue

Quote

After you install the ICs , post back & I'll give you an easy way to setup the tracking etc...OK...Wink...

Excellent. That's what I was hoping for. I didn't figure techs would haul scopes around with them everywhere.

Quote

You're not planning on using that on this TV are ya ???
OR are ya ???

C'mon, my 585 isn't thaaaaat scary. Though every time I turn it on I worry that one of the 80+ tubes will be out of tolerance, and I'll have a troubleshooting mission that would make this TV look like child's play Laugh

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 3, 2010, 7:11 PM

Post #23 of 46 (6182 views)
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Re: [randomdes] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

randomdes;....

5 ohms to ground is damm near a dead short !!!!...
For all practical purposes , in this case , it IS....

Lets not forget about this little nugget;=>>....

Quote

Find a location for the 12 vdc & verify its OK....At the CRT socket end & not the power supply output....

Look at page 63 in your manual for CN7302 pin #6 on the blue socket or CN7202 pin #6 on the green socket or CN7102 pin #6 on the red socket....
Then look at pages 79 , 80 & 81...
Check the CNs for their locations on the boards on the TV to get readings for the 12 vdc...
You should be able to stick the pointy part of your probe into one of them , turn the TV on & get a reading....
If not , gently remove one of the CRT modules , hook up a gater clip to L7301 or any other part on that 12 vdc line on any other CRT module...Whichever is convenient....
Leave the board hang in mid-air & turn on the TV....
You MUST check this voltage BEFORE you put in the new ICs or run the risk of blowing them out....
That voltage has to be there....

The ICs I found were cheap.... Laugh

...
Not knowing what part of the world you're in , I suspect that normally here in the USA they would be about $5~$6 each....

Quote

I'm already a little worried about the screen calibration routine detailed in the service manual.

WHAT page are you referring to in the manual ???....

After you install the ICs & resistors , do NOT turn on the TV...
We have a proceedure to follow to make certain a bad CRT did or did not take out the ICs to begin with....

Good Luck.... Sly

....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

randomdes
New User

Mar 5, 2010, 2:21 AM

Post #24 of 46 (6166 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

12v is ok!

ICs should be in tomorrow (if one can believe UPS). Got them from that canadian company (I'm in Toronto), $9 of ICs and $16 of shipping. I'm in the wrong business.

Quote

WHAT page are you referring to in the manual ???....

PDF page 13, section 3 setup adjustments.

I have my resistors soldered in, just waiting for those ICs. So I should have those in by tomorrow evening, what is this procedure for making sure it wasn't a bad CRT? I'd also be interested in any sort of setup advice if the set does happen to work once I replace these ICs.

randomdes
New User

Mar 5, 2010, 2:41 AM

Post #25 of 46 (6164 views)
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Re: [randomdes] Sony KP57HW40 8 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Also. I'm going over the schematic here trying to figure out what is triggering the HV warning. I only see IK lines coming from this IC, and afaik IK is only about screen blanking, not blink codes and safety shutdowns.

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