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Crumbtrail TV Forums: TV Equipment: TV Repair Forum:
Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems

 

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dohclude
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Jan 26, 2010, 2:04 AM

Post #1 of 30 (5213 views)
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Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems Can't Post

Somebody gave my dad this TV and said it worked great. When we got it home and hooked it up it looks like there was only red and green on the screen and they were out of alignment. I didn't have the remote, but I figured out how to get into the menu by holding both volume buttons. I was able to get into the convergence menu, but when I try to adjust the blue setting there is no blue cross on the screen. I pulled the back cover off the set and I can see some blue light through the lens. Does this sound like the blue crt is out or something else completely? Would it even be worth it to try and fix this thing or just get rid of it?



FUXER
User

Jan 28, 2010, 9:22 AM

Post #2 of 30 (5198 views)
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Re: [dohclude] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't be bothered with this basic stuff- contact Mr Ron M- he is the self-aknowledged expert on the subject(in fact on EVERY subject!!) IF-IF- he bothers to answer you- you will get a serial reply over about 12 months or more- something that a 2 year old child could answer in 5 minutes!.


Ron.M
Veteran


Jan 28, 2010, 11:09 PM

Post #3 of 30 (5191 views)
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Re: [FUXER] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

FUXER;.....

Quote
I can't be bothered with this basic stuff- contact Mr Ron M- he is the self-aknowledged expert on the subject(in fact on EVERY subject!!) IF-IF- he bothers to answer you- you will get a serial reply over about 12 months or more- something that a 2 year old child could answer in 5 minutes!.


You're the alledged "expert" here , at least according to "Gus69" & that's the answer you give to "dohclude" ????....
What a crock you are....
Is it because you don't know the "basic stuff" the real reason you refuse to help him out ????
OR did you forget your meds again ???
I'm going to wait & see if you have the cajones to help this guy in the right way or show your true colors & play games with him & me ....Mad....
Your call.....


Later....Ron.M.....Cool......



Veteran & Retired TV technician


Ron.M
Veteran


Feb 1, 2010, 1:03 AM

Post #4 of 30 (5168 views)
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Re: [dohclude] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

dohclude;.....

I think we waited long enough for FUXER to answer....
PLEASE do NOT believe what he said about me...
That will be for you to decide...OK....Sly...
NO comment on what I think about his actions....
IF you are still around & still interested in some help , I'm ready , willing & able to help you out....
Please post back & we'll get started...OK....Sly.....


Later....Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


dohclude
New User

Feb 1, 2010, 2:03 AM

Post #5 of 30 (5164 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

well, yes I am still looking for help. I don't have much to spend on this thing so replacing a whole crt is too expensive (cheapest one I could find was $220, I can buy a better TV for less than that on craigslist.) I am a beginner when it comes to TV repair, but I am familiar with electronics and I am very good at soldering. I have a business repairing video game consoles. Let's just ignore people's posts that don't offer any help, as far as I'm concerned if you don't want to help, why waste your time replying?<br>


(This post was edited by dohclude on Feb 1, 2010, 2:07 AM)


Ron.M
Veteran


Feb 1, 2010, 3:16 AM

Post #6 of 30 (5158 views)
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Re: [dohclude] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

dohclude:...

Thanks for hanging in there...
OK , lets get started....

We need to remove the front screen & take a look down into each CRT lens while you have it on & with signal....
I reccommend the front because it will be easier to look down the lens to see the video...
(If you need help with the front screen removal info , just ask & I will post instructions how to do that)....
You will be looking at a bright pix so use care when you do this....
Start with the red as it usually is the best to use as a refference....
The red video should be bright , in focus & clear on the CRT screen....
Next look at the green CRT....
This video should be bright , in focus & clear also , but may have some clouding in the coolant...
Now , look at the blue....
If I'm right , this one will be the worst of all...
You probably will see a mess... Poor video , poor focus & lots of contamination in the coolant....

Post back with your observations...

Thanks....



Later...Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Feb 1, 2010, 3:20 AM)


jts1957
Veteran


Feb 1, 2010, 3:34 AM

Post #7 of 30 (5153 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
You will be looking at a bright pix so use care when you do this....


Like this?



-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away


denonjapan
Veteran

Feb 1, 2010, 2:07 PM

Post #8 of 30 (5145 views)
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Re: [dohclude] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

dochlude! lets have some fun ok? Could it be that "somebody" who gave that tv to your dad was no other than >Mr Ron M.< aka Repair SHOP. After his business was forclosed to bankruptcy?SlySlySly. although FUXER was right again!...if he bothers to answer you? Constant reply is all you going to get. but take note!>>>> NO RESULT< <<<< but endless replies one after another. I mean! a jobless individual, peeping tom freak! that's all he is...
However, here's a second opinion and word of thought regarding "worth fixing" and what not. if you have all the budget and time to do such thing? I would suggest you to replace all three. Not just one...There you go, i said it....And here's a thing though. if the units first service is under your awareness then you can proceed. I will not warrant my word if somebody else had tweaked the inside before it landed into your dad's hand. or else better get rid of it.
denonjapan
made in japan


Gus67
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Feb 1, 2010, 2:52 PM

Post #9 of 30 (5143 views)
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Re: [dohclude] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

I will cut to the chase and give you my opinion based on what I think is wrong.

You need to change the fluid.There are 3 tubes that each have a focus lens and coolant inside them.You need to drain the fluid,clean the optics and converge the colors.

I have a similar tv that I did this to and it works like a new set now.The fluid costs 7 bux a tube so it's a cheap fix.

When I did it I only changed the blue and green.the red was clear so I left it.I also did not remove the crt's I felt it was not worth all the extra work.You might want to take them out.I chose not to and it worked out great.

Do a search of crt coolant change and sort through all the posts.There is good info in there,but there is also nonsense as well.depending on you backround with tools and your attention to detail you can decide your path to repair the set.


Ron.M
Veteran


Feb 1, 2010, 8:32 PM

Post #10 of 30 (5134 views)
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Re: [dohclude] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

dohclude;.....

Allow me to give you some info on these 2 clowns.....

1st;..denon WAS BANNED for 30 days for SERIOUS bad behavior (I have proof)..
He is on his way again for the same bad behavior....He didn't learn anything from his suspension...
You'll notice he didn't jump in here till I started giving you help....
That tells me that all he wants to do is create problems....
His advice is not always accurate EVEN if you could understand his lousy English....

2nd;..Gus-"brains & lacks courtesy" is a former (??) laser tech (??).....
He signed up on this site a few weeks ago , I helped him fix his first TV & now instantly
he became a TV expert in repairs even tho his ONLY TV repair was his OWN TV....
He & I had a falling out over some idiotic screw adjustments on the lens , my not
giving him "Factory Menu" codes , etc...& at the time I said he was not "qualified" for it...
He wasn't & STILL isn't....
He jumped in here only to give me a hard time...His privelidge...
But I & you can ignore both of these clowns...
Your call....


jts1957 is the ONLY one here that seems decent & does not insult
people like some others I've seen do....
His technical ability blows away that of the other 2....HANDS DOWN !!!



These 2 clowns do not like me....
That is perfectly FINE with me...
I could care less what that caliber of people think of me....


Have a GOOD day....


Later...Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Gus67
User

Feb 1, 2010, 8:48 PM

Post #11 of 30 (5129 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron,

I was just posting a reply to this guy...why not speed up the process a little?

I am no expert on anything but busting your balls....this kid has no reason to be dragged into this.I gave MY OPINION...this is a help forum,isnt it?

now just let the kid fix his tv and keep your wise ass comments out of it.


Gus67
User

Feb 1, 2010, 8:50 PM

Post #12 of 30 (5128 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron,
Your last post just proves what I am saying.

get some help..you need it..no joke


dohclude
New User

Feb 1, 2010, 8:52 PM

Post #13 of 30 (5127 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, I figured it was something like that. I have my own site and forums so I am used to ignoring people like that, no big deal.

Anyways, back to the matter at hand. I checked the lenses like you suggested, although I did it from the back of the set (I don't want to take the screen off if I don't absolutely have to.) The blue lens is completely fogged over, light shines through, but no discernible picture can be seen. I will try and get some pictures and post them just to make sure before I spend any money on the replacement coolant. I am on a tight budget here, so can you recommend a cheap place to order some? Also, If I do end up doing this, is there any way to make sure that the lens stays in alignment? Or will it be easy enough to correct afterward if the alignment is a little off?


Gus67
User

Feb 1, 2010, 8:58 PM

Post #14 of 30 (5125 views)
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Re: [dohclude] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

I was just trying to help out and save time..that's all.


dohclude
New User

Feb 1, 2010, 9:33 PM

Post #15 of 30 (5117 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay, I snapped a few pictures of each lens with the tv on.

First the Red one, looks pretty clear except for a few small specs here and there. I could see a clear picture in it.


Next, the green one. Also relatively clear, but some noticeable blurriness and large specs/chunks. (my camera didn't want to take a terribly accurate pic of the green one for some reason, it's actually not as blurry as this pic shows, but you can at least see the chunks I am talking about.)



And last, the blue one. This picture is a pretty accurate representation of what I see with the naked eye. I didn't see the "chunks" like with the green lens, but I just see a nice even blue frost with no picture whatsoever.


So guys, does it look like I need to replace the coolant? Should I replace all three or just the blue and green?


Ron.M
Veteran


Feb 1, 2010, 9:47 PM

Post #16 of 30 (5114 views)
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Re: [dohclude] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

dohclude;....


Quote
I don't want to take the screen off if I don't absolutely have to..

When it comes time to change coolant , I'm going to strongly reccommend you do... I'll explain fully later on....OK....



Quote
I am on a tight budget here, so can you recommend a cheap place to order some?

I know EXACTLY where you are coming from....

The link below is for a trusted & reputable company I've done bussiness with in the past...
The coolant is $8.99 + s&h for a 16 oz bottle...

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/...p;CAWELAID=220229728

Assuming the red is Ok....
You'll need to order ONLY 2...
You'll be changing ONLY the green & blue coolant...


Quote
Also, If I do end up doing this, is there any way to make sure that the lens stays in alignment?


The lens itself after you re-install it WILL return to proper alignment automatically....It's the new coolant that is different...
IF you follow my instructions to the letter , there will be a minimum of adjustments...
But keep in mind that the optical refraction qualities from the original coolant are different than the newer coolant's are & therefore there WILL be some adjusting to do...i.e.: convergence....




Quote
Or will it be easy enough to correct afterward if the alignment is a little off?

IF you do this CORRECTLY I do NOT expect any major problems....Yes , it should be easy...

Let me know what you want to do next....


A heads up here;....This job is expected to take you about 2 hours , maybe less depending on your mechanical abilities....
A careful proceedure will be outlined for you to follow...


Thanks....


Later....Ron.M....Cool.....



EDIT:....
OK , you posted those pix while I was typeing this one....BTW GREAT pix...
I'm concerned by the lack of video in the blue CRT....Was there ANY hint of a pix there ????
The green definitely needs changing...I would pass on the red CRT....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Apr 15, 2011, 10:27 PM)


dohclude
New User

Feb 1, 2010, 10:02 PM

Post #17 of 30 (5106 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

I can see no picture at all in the blue lens. Just a blue glow.

If you think the blue one is okay and just needs the coolant changed and a good cleaning inside I will go ahead and order the coolant for it.


(This post was edited by dohclude on Feb 1, 2010, 10:34 PM)


Ron.M
Veteran


Feb 1, 2010, 11:16 PM

Post #18 of 30 (5096 views)
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Re: [dohclude] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

dohclude;....

I have doubts that the blue problem will be fixed with just a coolant change...
We have to run a test.....
I will give you details in awhile....

I have to leave the net for a couple of hours , but I will get back to you later....


Later...Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Ron.M
Veteran


Feb 2, 2010, 3:16 AM

Post #19 of 30 (5083 views)
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Re: [dohclude] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

dohclude;....



Quote
If you think the blue one is okay and just needs the coolant changed and a good cleaning inside I will go ahead and order the coolant for it.

It does need a coolant change along with the green CRT....
Hold off on ordering the coolant for a bit....

OK , now for the test....
On the bottom of each CRT there's a small module....
In the pix below , I show where you will find the modules...
I suggest you move the green CRT module over to the blue CRT...
Move the red CRT module over to the green CRT....
On some sets there's 1 or more black wires going from the CRT
module UP toward the top of the CRTs....
You may not have enough slack to move the module over one CRT....
Just disconnect them from the module you are moving & transfer them
to the one coming up in its place...
In other words, Disconnect them from the blue CRT module & hook them up to the green module....
Take the ones from the green module & hook them up to the red module....
At this point you should have some black wires hanging free from the red CRT....
Since the red CRT will not be hooked up , that will be OK for now...
The important thing here is that the black wires be connected to the other CRT modules....
Leave the blue CRT module hanging in space away from anything else...
Not knowing from memory exactly how your TV is constructed ,
you would possibly be better off going about this from the front....
If you need help with this , please ask & I will give you info to get access to the CRTs from the front....
Now turn on the TV & see (Look down the lens) if there's any hint of a pix in the blue CRT Edit; >> & check the green CRT also for a pix<<........




Sorry about the pix quality...I'm new at that part...Need some practice & experience....

When you are done , please return the modules & wires exactly as they were before the test....
Please post what you saw or did not see.....

Thanks....


Later....Ron.M....Cool.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Feb 2, 2010, 5:52 AM)


Ron.M
Veteran


Feb 2, 2010, 5:50 AM

Post #20 of 30 (5077 views)
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dohclude;....


A minor little OOoops here....Unsure....
Forgot this;=>...


Quote
Now turn on the TV & see (Look down the lens) if there's any hint of a pix in the blue CRT >> & check the green CRT also for a pix<<....


No biggie....Sly....



Quote
When we got it home and hooked it up it looks like there was only red and green on the screen and they were out of alignment... I didn't have the remote, but I figured out how to get into the menu by holding both volume buttons. I was able to get into the convergence menu, but when I try to adjust the blue setting there is no blue cross on the screen. .....

One other question here....
We know why there's no blue cross , but ,
Were you able to get the red cross to converge on the green cross ???
Important for you to answer that....Sly.....




Later...Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


denonjapan
Veteran

Feb 2, 2010, 7:34 AM

Post #21 of 30 (5071 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

You said these to people same thing over and over unsuccessfully. that litle opps there dochlude! is a sign> RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

denonjapan
made in japan


dohclude
New User

Feb 2, 2010, 9:16 PM

Post #22 of 30 (5060 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

okay, I took a look at the crt controller boards before I even thought about swapping them. The layout of the green controller board looks like the components have a totally different layout than the other two. The red and blue boards appear to be identical as far as how the components are arranged on the board. I wasn't sure if it might fry something if I put the green controller board on the blue crt so I didn't attempt it yet. I can provide pics later if you want to see what I mean.

Also, your question about converging the red and green cross... Well I attempted it and I can only get the red cross about an inch away from the green one, that's as close as I can move it. When I tried the multi-point convergence setting the green crosses at the top and bottom of the screen were a little bit warped and misshapen. I can only assume that the convergence chips need to be replaced also as well as some fuses I think (from what I've researched anyways.)

So what is my next move? should I go ahead and attempt swapping the controller boards out now? I think I can get the replacement convergence chips for less than $20 on ebay (depending on which ones they are, I'll have to pull the board and remove the heatsink to find out for sure.) I also found a blue crt controller board for $24 that I think is the same as mine.


Ron.M
Veteran


Feb 2, 2010, 10:12 PM

Post #23 of 30 (5057 views)
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Re: [dohclude] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

dohclude;....

Please settle down... Don't be so anxious to order parts when we don't even know what is bad yet...OK...Smile....
The green , red & blue CRT modules ARE the same electrically....
Maybe just a little parts shifting around by Philips to confuse people....
If you want to post pix for me to confirm , that's OK with me...
Might be a good idea...
Sounds to me like you also need convergence ICs...
Do NOT get them grom eBay.....PERIOD....
Reason is , oftentimes they are knockoffs that WILL cause you problems....Guaranteed !!!
You should get ONLY Sanyo ICs as they are best & I will give you a link for very reasonably priced ICs when we find all problems & if & when you decide to fix TV....

One piece of strong advice; Do NOT under ANY circumstances adjust the green convergence....
If you do , you can & will mess it up possibly to the point of no return....
Will explain later....
Please Post pix & we'll go from there....Thanks...



Quote
So what is my next move? should I go ahead and attempt swapping the controller boards out now?

Just to be safe , wait till I see the pix....OK....

FYI:....Those are called CRT modules not controler boards.....Controler boards perform a totally different function....CRT modules actually are "video output" boards....
School is in recess....Sly.....


Later...Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Feb 2, 2010, 10:15 PM)


dohclude
New User

Feb 2, 2010, 10:54 PM

Post #24 of 30 (5052 views)
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I'm not really anxious to order anything, I just like to make sure that the parts I'll need will be available (or affordable) before I do anything usually. I figured the MODULES (thanks for the correction) were the same electrically, but I just wanted to double check before I destroy anything (better safe than stupid.)

Here are some pics I snapped of the crt modules:


RED:


GREEN:

(Sorry, I tried to get a good pic through all the wires.)

BLUE:


ALL:



I checked the convergence IC's and they are the STK392-110 ones. Also, there is no option to adjust the Green convergence from the user menu. Only Red, Blue, then Multipoint Red and Multipoint Blue. I don't have a remote so I can't enter the service menu (I wouldn't want to anyways out of fear of messing something up.)


Ron.M
Veteran


Feb 2, 2010, 11:37 PM

Post #25 of 30 (5049 views)
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Re: [dohclude] Philips 55P8341A Convergence Problems [In reply to] Can't Post

dohclude;.....

Have no fear , as expected , they're the same !!!!
Go ahead & see if you can get some kind of
video on the blue CRT as I info'd you how to do....
When switching the modules;=>..
Use care with the wiring , don't try to stretch it beyond it's limits....
Also , when you remove the modules , be VERY careful as the CRT necks
are the weakest link...
Wiggle the board slowly but firmly downward & it will slide off...
When putting it on the next CRT , notice that there's a keyway
in the socket that must line up with the one on the CRT....
Do not force it , as you can easily bend the CRT pins & it won't
be easy to straighten them out...

Good Luck...

FYI:...Do not worry about the availability of parts for these problems....
Estimated cost for parts is $40.00 ~ $50.00 + s&h....

You're doing an excellent job here...


Again , fantastic pix...
What kind of camera is that ???

When you are finished running the test I suggested , post back with
the results....

Thanks....


Later...Ron.M....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

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