Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees


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Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees

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NayusDante
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Mar 16, 2011, 4:20 PM

Post #1 of 30 (8654 views)
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Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees	Can't Post

I recently found a Toshiba 14AF43, and while the picture quality is excellent, the entire image seems to be rotated a few degrees counter-clockwise. You can see what I mean here (color looks better IRL, blame my phone cam):

Notice at the bottom of the image, there is a "wedge" shape of black. I can stretch out the vertical in the service menu, but the rotation problem is still there. One of the options in the service menu is "TRAPEZIUM," which I would assume to be a trapezoid adjustment, but adjusting it from 0 to its max of 63 shows no visible change in the picture. Same for the horizontal adjustments, like H SIZE. Another thing that I've noticed is that when accessing the "CUT OFF" parameter in the service menu, the picture reduces to one horizontal line in the center of the screen.

Any idea as to what the problem is, or what I can do about it?

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 16, 2011, 7:37 PM

Post #2 of 30 (8627 views)
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Re: [NayusDante] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

NayusDante;....

I LOVE Metroid !!!!
I have the original NES Nintendo version...
Have you beaten it yet ????

Now for the TV....
You will need to remove the back cover & make an adjustment while the set IS ON....
Are you comfortable with that ???...

Quote

Notice at the bottom of the image, there is a "wedge" shape of black.

It's hard for me to see from your pix , but , do you get the same type of wedge at the top of the pix ????

Also pix looks a bit shrunk in on the right side bottom (Width)...Is it ???

Quote

Another thing that I've noticed is that when accessing the "CUT OFF" parameter in the service menu, the picture reduces to one horizontal line in the center of the screen.

This is OK & normal...
It is done intentionaly so you can set gray scale....
Nothing to worry about... Wink

..

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

NayusDante
New User

Mar 16, 2011, 8:19 PM

Post #3 of 30 (8620 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

I would not mind opening it up, but I'd certainly like to know exactly what I'm doing before I go poking around something live.

The distortion on the right seems to be consistent with the rest of the picture. The whole image is tilted, not just that corner. I can adjust the vertical size to compensate, but the image is still rotated. The top of the image would be about right at the left corner, but the right corner would be raised.

Here's a better picture to show how consistent the problem is:

Here is a picture with the V size reduced to fit the upper right and lower left corners to the screen. Notice the upper left and lower right corners have black wedges.

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 16, 2011, 8:33 PM

Post #4 of 30 (8618 views)
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Re: [NayusDante] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

NayusDante;....

I'm not sure how this happened , but , it looks like the yoke somehow got out of adjustment...
I'll need a pix of the CRT from the inside...
Take a pix of the CRT neck & post it...
I'll give you info on how to SAFELY do this...
Not hard to do... Wink

...

I have some errands to do...
I'll wait for a acknowledgement from you before I leave...
I see you're online , I'll wait a bit....
I'll be gone for about 2~3 hrs...

Later...Ron.M... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

NayusDante
New User

Mar 16, 2011, 8:39 PM

Post #5 of 30 (8616 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'll have the picture up sometime tonight, when I get a chance to open it up again.

I did find the service manual, if that would be helpful.

https://docs.google.com/...amp;authkey=CPzZ0uYM

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 16, 2011, 8:50 PM

Post #6 of 30 (8611 views)
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Re: [NayusDante] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

NayusDante;....

Thanks for the manual...
I'm downloading it now...
Will check back later tonite to see what you got & go from there...
Probably around 7:00 PM PST...
If too late for you , then tommorrow AM....

THANKS again.....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jts1957
Veteran

Mar 16, 2011, 9:27 PM

Post #7 of 30 (8604 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

I'll need a pix of the CRT from the inside...

This may prove to be difficult...
First there's the problem of shrinking a person with a picture taking device down to that size, then there's the lack of breathable atmosphere... Tongue

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 17, 2011, 12:38 AM

Post #8 of 30 (8595 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts1957;....

ANYBODY that can survive all that BS handed out by Gussie girl on TWO threads , HAS to be able to hold his/her breath FOREVER !!!!..... Wink

....

NayusDante;.....

This is the area I would like to see;=>...
Ignore the arrows , pix is from another set...

PS;...
Got the manual , don't know that we'll need it...

Later...Ron.M..... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Mar 17, 2011, 12:39 AM)

richpart
User

Mar 17, 2011, 12:45 AM

Post #9 of 30 (8590 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ok, I'm gonna jump in here cause you aren't being 100% accurate here. He has a Toshiba and this is a Panasonic yoke again. I expect more from the knit picker himself LOL.

Knowlege is King Baby!!!

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 17, 2011, 1:10 AM

Post #10 of 30 (8582 views)
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Re: [richpart] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

richpart;.....

Lets NOT start another one....

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I expect more from the knit picker himself LOL.

With ALL due respect Mr Daniel Boone , I QUALIFIED IT !!!!!.. Wink

...

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Ignore the arrows , >>> pix is from another set... <<< , See !!!

Nice try !!!!

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

richpart
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Mar 17, 2011, 1:13 AM

Post #11 of 30 (8580 views)
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NayusDante
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Mar 17, 2011, 3:36 AM

Post #12 of 30 (8574 views)
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Re: [richpart] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

Alright, here's a few pictures. Let me know if you can see what it is we're looking for, or let me know if I need to take a better picture. I can't get a better angle without unhooking the ribbon cables and pulling the case off entirely.

jts1957
Veteran

Mar 17, 2011, 4:42 AM

Post #13 of 30 (8568 views)
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Re: [NayusDante] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

If you remove from back a screw or two from the A/V jack area and by the flyback, chassis and cabinet rear cover will separate.

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Mar 17, 2011, 4:44 AM)

NayusDante
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Mar 17, 2011, 4:50 PM

Post #14 of 30 (8561 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

Got the back off, here's a better angle.

(This post was edited by NayusDante on Mar 17, 2011, 4:51 PM)

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 17, 2011, 7:46 PM

Post #15 of 30 (8554 views)
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Re: [NayusDante] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

NayusDante;.....

1st off....GREAT PIX, THANK you !!!

Ok , from the pix , I don't see where the yoke has moved at all...
So what may have happened is the micro or the eprom may have gotten mildly damaged
or corrupted as you said some of the Factory Service adjustments did not function...
This will be a "workaround" or as some of the TV techs that I know call it "faking it"....

In the pix below , do NOT adjust the tabs in the Green circle....
They are held in place with some white paint...Leave them alone....
Also , do NOT loosen the screw with the Red arrow....
That holds the ring assembly in place...
What you do loosen (finally) is the screw with the Blueish arrow....
You may have to remove some of the white stuff to release the yoke...
When it is loose , you should be able to turn the yoke in both directions....
Do not over loosen it... Have it so it is firmly in place...
There are some black rubber wedges on the front of the yoke (See page
16 (or D-4) in the service manual , Fig 3-2-b)) that may move if you have the
yoke too loose...
IF those become dislodged OR move , you WILL have purity or convergence
issues , so try your damdest to leave them in place...
___________________________________________________________________
Suggestion;....
To keep the wedges in place...
Get some duct tape & put a strip across the flat part of the wedges onto the CRT...
Make it wide enough to get a good grip on both the wedges & the CRT...
____________________________________________________________________
Now, when you turn the yoke , grab the white plastic ALL the way up towards the front of
the CRT on BOTH sides OR the top & bottom & GENTLY PUSH the yoke forward as you turn it....
Keep your fingers OFF the copper wiring & ON the plastic & you should be OK....
Practice BEFORE you do the next step...

Turn the set on & wait for a pix OR the pattern you had to come on...
Keeping the yoke ALL the way forward on the neck , adjust it for a level pix , hold it in
place & tighten firmly the screw...
Turn the TV OFF & finish tightening the screw...
WARNING:...Do NOT over tighten the screw as you CAN crack OR break the
neck of the CRT & then you have a 14" doorstop...
If all looks well , button the set up , say Thanks & enjoy the TV...

Any questions or clarifications , just post & I'll answer ASAP.... Wink

....
Let me know how it went....

Have fun.... Sly

...

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

NayusDante
New User

Mar 17, 2011, 7:59 PM

Post #16 of 30 (8552 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

Alright, loosened the screw, but the yoke seems attached to the wedges with the white rubber stuff. Do I detach the yoke from those?

NayusDante
New User

Mar 17, 2011, 8:39 PM

Post #17 of 30 (8542 views)
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Re: [NayusDante] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nevermind, got it loose. That certainly does the trick, but now I'm noticing some parabola issues. Notice the bow at the bottom.

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 18, 2011, 12:24 AM

Post #18 of 30 (8528 views)
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Re: [NayusDante] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

NayusDante;....

Looks to me like one or more of the wedges moved...
HONEST ANSWERS !!!!...Did one or more of the wedges come loose ???
Did you tape them as I asked ???...

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

NayusDante
New User

Mar 18, 2011, 3:27 AM

Post #19 of 30 (8521 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

I didn't tape them, but they're glued to the tube. Wiggling them around doesn't affect the picture, so I don't think that would be the issue. After readjusting the yoke again, it looks a little better. I've had squished vertical settings during testing, so it's barely noticeable (if at all) when the image is properly stretched. Aren't flat CRTs a little funny to begin with? At any rate, I think I'm satisfied with the geometry. Looks nice now:

From here, I'd like to do a proper color calibration and picture centering. The color is already better than any CRT I've owned, but I'd like to set it up accurately. What's standard procedure for these? Specifically, I'm going to be using it for retro gaming (NES, SNES, Atari, Sega...), if that helps at all.

Also, thank you VERY much for your help so far! I was afraid I'd wasted $20 at the thrift shop after I saw the angle thing, but now it's the coolest CRT I've seen.

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 18, 2011, 4:04 AM

Post #20 of 30 (8513 views)
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Re: [NayusDante] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

NayusDante;....

That looks like a great little set....
I'm hard pressed to see ANY bowing in the pix....

Quote

From here, I'd like to do a proper color calibration and picture centering.

Not sure what you mean by "color calibration" ???
Are you reffering to or do you mean "cut off" & "white balance" ????
Those can be found on page 13 (D-1) in the manual...
Convergence looks OK & I wouldn't fool with it.....
I would NOT mess with centering....

Quote

What's standard procedure for these?

The only proceedures for those adjustments (convergence) are on page 16 (D-4) in the manual....
Problem is that you need to have some expensive equipment to tinker with convergence , etc...
In my opinion , I'd leave well enough alone....
Pix looks great , so enjoy the TV....

Any other questions or help I can give you ???

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 18, 2011, 4:04 AM

Post #21 of 30 (8513 views)
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NayusDante
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Mar 18, 2011, 4:18 AM

Post #22 of 30 (8510 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

When I adjust cut-off, nothing happens. I think it's yet another borked menu.

The white balance adjustment in the manual seems to call for a pattern generator, so I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do about that.

For centering, I mean the overscan and h/v position values.

I've tried to find test pattern images to make adjustments against, but I can't find anything useful. Any suggestions there?

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 18, 2011, 4:32 AM

Post #23 of 30 (8506 views)
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Re: [NayusDante] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

NayusDante;.....

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When I adjust cut-off, nothing happens.

When you adjust "cut off" you are setting the "screen" volts to the CRT...
That is done by adjusting the "screen" or "G2" control on the flyback....
You have 2 adjustments on the rear side of the flyback...
One is screen or G2 , the other is focus...
Just do the G2...
Turn it till you get a "dim line" & its set...

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The white balance adjustment in the manual seems to call for a pattern generator, so I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do about that.

No generator . no adjust....Simple , ain't it ???.... Wink

...

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For centering, I mean the overscan and h/v position values.

Those adjustments you said weren't working....SOooo ....
Leave them alone..... Wink

....

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I've tried to find test pattern images to make adjustments against, but I can't find anything useful. Any suggestions there?

What adjustments are you refering to ????
Where did you find the crosshatch pattern at ???

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Mar 18, 2011, 4:33 AM)

Ron.M
Veteran

Mar 18, 2011, 4:37 AM

Post #24 of 30 (8503 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

NayusDante;...

You don't need a pattern generator to do "White Balance"....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

NayusDante
New User

Mar 18, 2011, 4:48 AM

Post #25 of 30 (8496 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Toshiba 14AF43 CRT - Image is tilted a few degrees [In reply to]	Can't Post

I adjusted the G2 knob when it was still open, so brightness is about what I think it should be. Black is black, white is white...

Horizontal size doesn't work, but I can move the image left and right a bit. Vertical size and position both work.

Basically, I just want to make sure that the picture is the right size, not being stretched or squished, and that it has accurate color settings.

The crosshatch pattern I was using is 720x480, and being output from my PSP in 16:9 mode so it filled the screen, making the square stretched vertically.

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