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Crumbtrail TV Forums: TV Equipment: VCR Repair Forum:
JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape

 

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the98
User

Oct 22, 2017, 4:26 PM

Post #26 of 127 (3530 views)
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Re: [jts1957] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

It looks aligned, right? Didn't touch anything. It might got that way when I reassembled yesterday.

https://i.imgur.com/S5Vlzt7.jpg

Now the VCR goes on and off on a cycle, by itself. I don't need to push the Power button to turn it on. Buttons switch modes, but motors don't do anything:

https://youtu.be/j2eaaWtYD90


(This post was edited by the98 on Oct 22, 2017, 6:03 PM)


jts1957
Veteran


Oct 22, 2017, 8:45 PM

Post #27 of 127 (3522 views)
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Re: [the98] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

Assuming ALL 4 items are currently aligned, it's time to confirm the Basket and Mode motors are OK.
Even though those motors require 12 volts and are in all likelihood good ... a) I suggest 5 volts from your PC supply - things will move slower than normal which is good in two ways: You can more easily observe the action and there is less risk of damaging things; b) Disconnect one terminal from each motor. If you apply voltage to a motor while it are still connected in the circuit, you may burn out a motor driver IC.

IF you want to observe mechanisms 'going through the motions' and have a 'Dummy' tape available, use it, otherwise a tape you don't care about would suffice. Bear in mind, unlike a certain YT video of the WRONG mechanism, you may not be easily able to retract the tape into its cassette!
Clip a lead from your supply to one terminal of the Basket motor and put a tape in VCR's opening. While indicating to the tape you wish it to go in, touch the other lead from supply to the other motor terminal (If won't go, reverse leads). Assuming tape is fully loaded into basket, reverse the supplies' leads and let it fully eject. Reverse the leads and put tape fully back into basket and we can move on to the Loading/Mode motor.
Clip a lead from your supply to one terminal of the Loading/Mode motor (I'm sure by now, you have some idea where that motors' leads lead [?CN1 pins 1 & 2 on Deck Terminal board - The board with Mode switch?] if accessing the actual motor terminals would require disassembly). Touch the other supply lead to the other motor terminal. If it doesn't move anything, try reversing the supply's leads. Just like Basket, IF all is aligned, you will be able to observe the loading arms pull tape out of cassette and pinch/pressure roller engaging. Since all we are doing is being done with the VCR unplugged and the cylinder, reel motor & idler aren't moving, you will have to carefully remove tape so it doesn't damage cylinder heads or Infrared Emitter.
If you encounter any difficulties - ask before doing. Otherwise, unload cassette TAPE from deck mechanism, unload cassette from Basket and reattach motor leads.


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Location: Far, Far Away


the98
User

Oct 23, 2017, 1:05 AM

Post #28 of 127 (3515 views)
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Re: [jts1957] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

Do I need to watch the motor work the VCR's mechanisms, or is it enough to see that the motor spins?


jts1957
Veteran


Oct 23, 2017, 2:31 AM

Post #29 of 127 (3513 views)
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Re: [the98] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

IF you believe that all is aligned back as the factory intended, watching mechanisms will prove it.
What about procedure concerns you?


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Location: Far, Far Away


the98
User

Oct 24, 2017, 1:28 AM

Post #30 of 127 (3493 views)
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Re: [jts1957] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

I did it. So, basket motor works fine with 5 volts. It's able to push the cassette inside the VCR.

Deck motor did nothing when applying 5 volts. I then tried it with 12 volts, and it moved very slowly. When I removed the belt, the motor worked great with only 5 V.

So, I don't know if there is a problem with the belt (it looked like it slipped a bit, but doesn't look stretched or damaged), or if the mechanisms is jammed somewhere, or not properly aligned. How should I proceed?


jts1957
Veteran


Oct 24, 2017, 2:43 AM

Post #31 of 127 (3489 views)
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Re: [the98] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

You did try reversing leads on loading motor?

A mark on a turning object makes it easier to see if they're slipping/stopping.
Marking across the Mode motor pulley AND the Worm Wheel pulley with a magic marker is a good way to tell if is jam or wear. If mechanism is jamming both pulleys usually stop or slow. If belt is very bad Worm wheel pulley will stop turning even as Mode motor pulley &/or belt spins. Also a bad belt when viewed from a side, looks like the belt is threatening to jump off a pulley.

The first time around I don't recall your answers to (especially 2):
1) In STOP, with basket Ejected, ALL alignments should be as shown in Section 1.3 drawings.
2) Under those conditions, the VCR should be capable of being turned On by YOU, it will then STAY turned On until either YOU turn it Off or YOU try to insert a tape.


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Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Oct 24, 2017, 8:28 AM)


the98
User

Oct 24, 2017, 11:53 PM

Post #32 of 127 (3476 views)
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Re: [jts1957] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
You did try reversing leads on loading motor?


Yes. I added some WD-40 to the mechanism, and managed to get it working with 12 V, but it kind of struggles:

https://youtu.be/UAxlsUsWQkg

https://youtu.be/g9iddVZ44DY

What kind of grease should I use to lub those gears?


Quote
1) In STOP, with basket Ejected, ALL alignments should be as shown in Section 1.3 drawings.
2) Under those conditions, the VCR should be capable of being turned On by YOU, it will then STAY turned On until either YOU turn it Off or YOU try to insert a tape.


Everything looks aligned, as far as my understanding goes. I can turn the VCR on, but then I can't turn it off, it shuts off by itself. Granted, I have tried it now with the motor unplugged from the unit. Until I grease everything up, I don't won't to resolder anything.


jts1957
Veteran


Oct 25, 2017, 3:10 AM

Post #33 of 127 (3470 views)
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Re: [the98] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

White lithium or black moly grease. From a tube or canister - NOT a spray! USE it Sparingly. Grease will spread over item that is greased as the VCR is used. Better too little than too much. You can always add more. WD40 I don't recommend!

Quote
Until I grease everything up

That's quite possible. If you get it on the wrong item, it may be a bitch to clean.

Hold off for now. I will provide drawings of where to grease as we get there.

Are the previous videos with 5 or 12 volts applied?

1) Post a video of the TOP mechanisms as you're driving mode motor. (Back tension arm assembly swinging & pinch roller engaging Capstan shaft.)
2) Post a video of the Mode belt. (The closer - the better ... Straight on and either side 45 degree.)


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Location: Far, Far Away


the98
User

Oct 25, 2017, 1:08 PM

Post #34 of 127 (3467 views)
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Re: [jts1957] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

The motor on the bottom works applying 12V. 5V wasn't enough to make it move when connected to the mechanism, but it had no problem moving when the belt was off. The lubricant helped to get the mechanism to move like you see on the videos, but it was on 12V. I guess I need to grease everything properly.

Just to be clear, which one is the mode belt?

Another question is, how do the reels move? Don't I have to check that too?


jts1957
Veteran


Oct 25, 2017, 7:22 PM

Post #35 of 127 (3461 views)
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Re: [the98] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

Spray on lubricant MAY keep grease out of a tub or tube from adhering to surface.

https://imgur.com/a/neHH2

I NEVER have called a MODE Switch a 'Loading' switch, but I will use MODE & Loading interchangeably in regards to motor & belt.

Separate motors For Cylinder, Reel, Basket & Loading/Mode. Taking care of problem with the last two may reveal others work fine.

Requested videos?


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Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Oct 25, 2017, 7:31 PM)


the98
User

Oct 26, 2017, 3:04 AM

Post #36 of 127 (3390 views)
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Re: [jts1957] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

Here are the videos, when applying 12 V:

https://youtu.be/wauAj17gSX4

https://youtu.be/1O98DEswoIs

https://youtu.be/0k9_l5lkPc0

https://youtu.be/mburW7whDp8

https://youtu.be/xVN_e8NZjO8

I should mention something that I totally forgot. There is a plug marked as CN1 which was missing a wire. I added the gray wire, to the connector, but I don't know where it goes. Does the service manual you got say anything about it, or do you think it's relevant? The VCR was in that condition when I got it.

https://i.imgur.com/EPBSILF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8OzJz5r.jpg


jts1957
Veteran


Oct 26, 2017, 6:50 AM

Post #37 of 127 (3377 views)
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Re: [the98] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's start with the wire. CN1 on which board? Your pictures show three boards between the PS and the front of unit. One SM shows zero and another SM shows two boards.
The board closest to the front has the type of info I need printed on it (1 6 / PB20011 / Servo PWB ASSY). I need that kind of info from the board with CN1 mounted on it. Also where does other end of CN1 wires lead? (My guess, PRE/REC, possibly right above grey 3 terminal ground block you asked about earlier.) If so that same kind of info off that board too.

https://imgur.com/a/Tl8BG


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Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Oct 26, 2017, 8:22 AM)


the98
User

Oct 26, 2017, 12:13 PM

Post #38 of 127 (3364 views)
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Re: [jts1957] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

This is where the other end goes:

https://i.imgur.com/GC17Dan.jpg

Again, gray wire added by me to where I suppose it should go. It's spliced, so there is no connection.

The board:

https://i.imgur.com/Ir90CMsh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0BlQjdD.jpg

Thanks!


jts1957
Veteran


Oct 26, 2017, 6:52 PM

Post #39 of 127 (3359 views)
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Re: [the98] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

In your three most recent pictures:
1) I see three wires emerging from under a wide white ribbon cable. From bottom to top: a (dark) grey wire that appears to go to
a ground stake; a (light grey?) white wire and a Tan/Brown wire that both go to either end of a ?R35? sans resistor on PRE/REC board. Highest 'R' # is in the 20's on either SM schematic.
2) I see a COLOR board that neither of the two SM show.
3) CN1 Pin #2 - NO foil trace to it = NO connection to anything on that board.

What splice? Where?


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Location: Far, Far Away


the98
User

Oct 26, 2017, 9:07 PM

Post #40 of 127 (3356 views)
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Re: [jts1957] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

That's right. There is no trace on the board! So there wasn't supposed to be a wire there. It's the light gray wire, I added that one. We should just ignore it. I'll keep trying with the motor.


the98
User

Oct 28, 2017, 1:15 AM

Post #41 of 127 (3336 views)
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Re: [the98] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

So, I put everything back together, resolder everything, and I got the on/off cycle again. The VCR goes on and off by itself. I proceeded to desolder the mode motor and the VCR goes on when I press power, stays on for a few seconds, and during that time, you can press play and get the play light on off it thinks there is a tape inside.

What can be happening? There seems to be a problem when the mode motor is connected.


jts1957
Veteran


Oct 28, 2017, 5:29 AM

Post #42 of 127 (3330 views)
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Re: [the98] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

What are the part numbers for IC602, IC603 & IC604 on Mechanism Control Board (the board that the top board hinges on / 3 ribbons)? Presuming none have craters or cracks.


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Location: Far, Far Away


the98
User

Oct 31, 2017, 11:53 PM

Post #43 of 127 (3301 views)
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Re: [jts1957] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't seem to be able to confirm that, because I can't pull the board out. Is there any way to pull it out? Any trick? I feel like if I pull too hard, I'll break something, and I can't get a good hold of the board.

A picture for reference: https://i.imgur.com/uTuvv0R.jpg

I think I'm gonna give up on this unit. Is there any other step to go through, if we assume those ICs are ok??


jts1957
Veteran


Nov 1, 2017, 1:04 AM

Post #44 of 127 (3290 views)
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Re: [the98] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

They unplug. PC Board CAN be cracked if too much force is used!
I seem to to recall using the lower part of this inserted alternately under rear and front corner of board (that would be out of your picture at lower left & right) and gently prying. I seem to recall there may be plastic release(s), but forget whether you push or pull. (logic says gently pull away from socket.

In you last picture, if you remove the 6-wire plug you can see a release tab.

What happened to:

Quote
If you are patient with me, and you're wiling to help (as you've been doing so far) I'll keep trying.

People give up too easily. Troubleshooting, especially long distance is not the same as being there. I can't read your mind and you can't read mine.

While you have the board out, inspect the solder joints, especially at those plugs/sockets. Whether plug-in boards have been repeatedly unplugged & plugged or not, those plug connectors and sockets are another possible source of trouble.


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Location: Far, Far Away


the98
User

Nov 1, 2017, 7:46 PM

Post #45 of 127 (3266 views)
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Re: [jts1957] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

I couldn't manage to find IC602, but I was able to pull to board out without breaking anything, and these are the part numbers:

603:

913000
M54644BL

604:

910001
M54644BL


jts1957
Veteran


Nov 2, 2017, 5:48 AM

Post #46 of 127 (3229 views)
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Re: [the98] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

One manual I have does show IC602 & IC604 with those M54644BL part numbers.

Might as well give board numbers 04 Mechacon/M-CTL PB???
Also IC601 numbers.
NO IC602 ?TA8400P? 16 pin DIP Immediately adjacent to Pin 10 of IC603?


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Location: Far, Far Away


the98
User

Nov 2, 2017, 12:10 PM

Post #47 of 127 (3220 views)
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Re: [jts1957] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

Do the manuals have pictures or drawings of the components' locations?


jts1957
Veteran


Nov 2, 2017, 8:36 PM

Post #48 of 127 (3208 views)
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Re: [the98] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

https://imgur.com/a/3Zm3m M-CTL PWB ASSY

Let's try this again. Imgur had a problem or just didn't like me for awhile?


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Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Nov 2, 2017, 10:05 PM)


marcoir2
New User

Nov 3, 2017, 7:12 PM

Post #49 of 127 (3178 views)
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Post deleted by marcoir2 [In reply to]

 


jts1957
Veteran


Nov 4, 2017, 2:10 AM

Post #50 of 127 (3164 views)
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Re: [marcoir2] JVC HR-D190EN doens't take tape [In reply to] Can't Post

So much for starting your own thread. This could get messy.

Does your unit use a STK5481?


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Location: Far, Far Away

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