Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Problems?


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Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Problems?

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shelbydogg
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Jun 9, 2010, 3:04 PM

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Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Problems?	Can't Post

My 60PP9363H17 convergence was way off with a black moon shape at the bottom. My set used (2) STK392-120 chips. My "TV" friend came over and said "we'll put these new STK392-150 chips in, my supplier says that they are the same and will work". So I soldered them in and installed the board. The set turned on then smoked 4 of the smaller convergence resistors, then shut down.
So I read on the web that I should only replace -120 with -120 to avoid problems, but other websites say that I can go all the way to -180 without any problems and my resistors were probably bad to begin with. (nothing was burnt before the change and I had a picture too)
I ordered 2 STK392-120 chips. Can someone tell me what exact value,tolerance, and material these large and small convergence resistors are? Or better yet a part numbers from Digikey or Mcmelectronics.
When measuring out of the circuit, large were about 118 ohms, small ones 6.8 ohms. Correct?
Thanks in advance,
Rob

(This post was edited by shelbydogg on Jun 23, 2010, 10:49 PM)

Ron.M
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Jun 9, 2010, 5:06 PM

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Re: [shelbydogg] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

shelbydogg;.....

1st;...
Lets clear up some myths....

Quote

we'll put these new STK392-150 chips in, my supplier says that they are the same and will work".

This argument is as bad as "Which came first , the chicken OR the egg ???...
I'm a FIRM believer that you put in EXACTLY what came out....
Unless you are a "qualified" Electronic Engineer , don't play one....

Quote

So I read on the web that I should only replace -120 with -120 to avoid problems, but other websites say that I can go all the way to -180..

I agree with 120 to 120...

Quote

The set turned on then smoked 4 of the smaller convergence resistors, then shut down. & "my resistors were probably bad to begin with."

NOT neccessarily true.....My gut feeling is that the "150" ICs were overated for the set OR bad to begin with.....

Now to your question....

Quote

When measuring out of the circuit, large were about 118 ohms, small ones 6.8 ohms. Correct?

Quote

The 6.8 ohm resistors are probably good & OK....I have the manual for that set & could not find any 100/118 ohm resistors in the convergence output circuits....
Soooo...I need some reference numbers to look up for you...
Example;=>...3160...< Actually 6.8 ohms 1 watt in the set....
The #'s will be printed on the top &/or bottom side of the board....
Try to give me ALL the #'s you need....

Have fun..... Wink

.....

Later....Ron.M..... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

shelbydogg
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Jun 9, 2010, 5:47 PM

Post #3 of 27 (5140 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for the response Ron.
I was actually telling my "TV Repair friend" that I wanted to wait for the right chips because of what I read on the web about smoking the resistors, but he said "that he installed the higher #ed ones all of the time and it'll work"
Funny how it never works out with my TVs.
I should have said that the bigger of the convergence resistors measured around 180 ohms not my typoed 118.
I'm just guessing that this grouped together batch of resistors all deal with the convergence circuits.
Here is what I need to check or replace.
LARGE Resistors; 3161 3162,3163,3164,3165,3166
SMALL Resistors; 3151,3152,3157,3158,3159,3160. The ones that smoked, then opened up are 3157,3158,3159,3160
Are they special resistors that I can pickup from Digikey?
Thanks,
Rob

Ron.M
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Jun 9, 2010, 6:48 PM

Post #4 of 27 (5135 views)
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Re: [shelbydogg] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

shelbydogg;....

Here ya go;....
I am not familiar with Digikey...These resistors are ALL "Metal Film" @ 5% tolerance....
ANY flameproof resistor of the correct value should work just fine.....
In other words , they are NOT "special" types....

3161,3162,3163,3164,3165 & 3166 are ALL 100 ohm , 3 watt , metal film 5%...
Magnavox/Philips part #=>...2120 105 93449

3151,3152,3157,3158,3159,3160 are ALL 6.8 ohm , 1 watt , metal film 5%....
Magnavox/Philips part #=>...2120 106 90297

How's dat ????..... Wink

...

GOOD LUCK..... Sly

....

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

shelbydogg
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Jun 9, 2010, 8:38 PM

Post #5 of 27 (5129 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Ron.
I'll see how it works and let you know after my parts order comes in.

Digikey is a well known electronics parts supplier:
http://www.digikey.com/
I guess these should work?
These are the FUSIBLE 6.8 ohm resistors. and the others are listed as fusible.
http://search.digikey.com/...mp;name=PPC6.8CCT-ND

Rob

(This post was edited by shelbydogg on Jun 9, 2010, 8:59 PM)

shelbydogg
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Jun 16, 2010, 1:54 AM

Post #6 of 27 (5108 views)
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Re: [shelbydogg] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron,
I need your guidance once again.
I installed my 2 new stk392-120 modules and replaced the 4 burnt/open 6.8 ohm resistors, 3157, 3158, 3159, 3160.
Crossed my fingers and hit the power button.
I heard the high voltage of the tubes kick on, then smoke started coming from 3157 and 3158. Funny thing is that the other 2 didn't smoke this time. Do you mind looking at the prints to see what might cause these to open? Another bad module?
A little history: Original problem was the convergence was way off, 3d style with a dark moon shape at the bottom. I installed the suggested 392-150 instead of the 120s, then those 4 resistors smoked.
Thanks,
Rob

Ron.M
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Jun 16, 2010, 5:54 PM

Post #7 of 27 (5102 views)
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Re: [shelbydogg] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

shelbydogg;....

Quote

Another bad module?

If you are reffering to the IC , more than likely , yes....
But , this time it's time to find out what took it out....
I doubt it arrived defective.....

3157 and 3158 are in the blue vertical return circuit & are shunted by 3163 , a 100 ohm 3 watt resistor.......
3159 and 3160 are in the red vertical return circuit , also shunted....
My suspicion would be that the blue yoke has been damaged....
We can check that....
1st;=>....
How much electronic/TV repair background experience do you have ????...
HONEST answer , PLEASE....

Later....Ron.M..... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

shelbydogg
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Jun 16, 2010, 6:25 PM

Post #8 of 27 (5099 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

shelbydogg;....

Quote

Another bad module?

.... Well, I'm 50 now and have been playing with electronic circuits since I was about 12. I've built circuits from magazines and books by at first drawing PC boards with an etch resist pen to photo exposing light sensitive PG boards before etching them. I do lots of wiring by restoring old cars, houses, computers. I'm one of those guys that knows a little about lots of things instead of alot about a few things. I'll try to fix anything, and learn something about it, if I don't fix it. Not lots of TV repair background but my friend that suggested the -150 IC. Works on TVs for a living for a National company, so he is close by if I need any help. It seems like he is never able to repair MY TVs, so I try to do it myself or I take it to a local repair place if I tried, then couldn't fix it. My last big set, an RCA CTC-169 chassis 60"RP, I tried replacing anout $130 in capacitors, resistors and other components, then ended up paying the TV place $225 to replace the $3 capacitor that was causing a wavy picture. I even paid for the prints and scope wave forms, but still couldn't determine which cap was bad. I'll give it a heck of a try before I smash this cabinet into trash can size before the trash truck picks it up. (they won't pick up a big TV but will if it fits in a trash can) Rob

Ron.M
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Jun 16, 2010, 9:47 PM

Post #9 of 27 (5097 views)
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Re: [shelbydogg] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

shelbydogg;.....

Excellent info !!!!...Good background.....

Quote

Not lots of TV repair background but my friend that suggested the -150 IC. Works on TVs for a living for a National company, so he is close by if I need any help. It seems like he is never able to repair MY TVs,

I have some serious doubts about your "friend".... Wink

....

What we are going to try to find out is if a yoke is bad.....
On each yoke there is a connector that has 4 wires.....
They should be red , black , yellow & green.....
They will be of the thick variety....
The yellow & green are the vertical deflection wires &
the red & black are the horizontal deflection wires....
With an ohm meter read between the yellow & green on each yoke....
They should read the same value....
Pay particular attention to the blue yoke reading....
Just to play it safe , read the ohms between the red & black also....
Those will read very low ohms....
But all 3 should read the same also....
A final test is to read from either the red to yellow or green ....
OR the black to yellow or green....
That reading should be infinity or better known as "wide ass open".....

Post results....THANKS....

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

shelbydogg
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Jun 17, 2010, 5:39 AM

Post #10 of 27 (5091 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Quote

What we are going to try to find out is if a yoke is bad.....
On each yoke there is a connector that has 4 wires.....
They should be red , black , yellow & green.....
They will be of the thick variety....
The yellow & green are the vertical deflection wires &
the red & black are the horizontal deflection wires....
With an ohm meter read between the yellow & green on each yoke....
They should read the same value....
Pay particular attention to the blue yoke reading....
Just to play it safe , read the ohms between the red & black also....
Those will read very low ohms....
But all 3 should read the same also....
A final test is to read from either the red to yellow or green ....
OR the black to yellow or green....
That reading should be infinity or better known as "wide ass open".....

Okay, The 3 big yoke deflection wires are on the center board, close to the flyback. The wire colors were Red-blue---grn-yel RED, between red and blue measured 1.5 ohms, between green and yellow 1.7 ohms. Infinity when crossing between the pairs. GREEN, between red and blue measured 1.3 ohms, between green and yellow 1.7 ohms. Infinity when crossing between the pairs. BLUE, between red and blue measured 1.4 ohms, between green and yellow 1.7 ohms. Infinity when crossing between the pairs. Each yoke also had a smaller set of wires that went to a 4 pin plug that plugged directly into the convergence/tuner board right next to the resistors and convergence ICs. These wires were Orange, Violet, Brown, Black, One each for RED-GRN-BLU. RED, between Orange and Violet measured .4 ohms, between Brown and Black measured .4, infinity when crossing between the pairs. Green,between Orange and Violet measured .4 ohms, between Brown and Black measured .4, infinity when crossing between the pairs. BLUE, between Orange and Violet measured .4 ohms, between Brown and Black measured .4, infinity when crossing between the pairs. Rob

Ron.M
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Jun 17, 2010, 5:45 PM

Post #11 of 27 (5084 views)
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Re: [shelbydogg] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

shelbydogg;.....

Well....There seems to be some doubt in my mind about the results....
NOT sure yet.....
SOOooo , lets try a different tack.....

Quote

RED, between red and blue measured 1.5 ohms, between green and yellow 1.7 ohms. Infinity when crossing between the pairs.
GREEN, between red and blue measured 1.3 ohms, between green and yellow 1.7 ohms. Infinity when crossing between the pairs.
BLUE, between red and blue measured 1.4 ohms, between green and yellow 1.7 ohms.

The red & blue wires are for the horiz deflection....
The green & yellow are for the vertical deflection....
3157 & 3158 are in the blue vertical circuit....
ALL your readings for vertical (green & yellow wires) are OK....
It's the horiz (red & blue wires) readings that vary...

Do you have a supply of 6.8 ohm , 1 watt resistors available ????
You ready to experiment a bit ????

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

shelbydogg
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Jun 17, 2010, 8:00 PM

Post #12 of 27 (5082 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I only needed 4 to begin with but ordered 10, so I have 6 left over and an unlimited supply is only a few days away.
I was planning on putting my original stk192-120 chips back in to see if I can get to a known starting point, but unsire about which one was on the left or right. At this point, I don't think it matters.
I was also thinking about swapping the 2 new ones, side to side, just to see if one of the other pairs blows to verify that one of my chips came in DOA.
What did you have in mind?
My meter is a cheap $40 auto-ranging digital volt ohm meter. It mat not be very accurate when reading such low resistances with only one setting on the dial.
Rob

Ron.M
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Jun 18, 2010, 12:15 AM

Post #13 of 27 (5079 views)
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Re: [shelbydogg] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

shelbydogg;....

Sorry about my seemingly slow reply.....
I have a car on "life support" & went car shopping today with my landlord....

Quote

I was planning on putting my original stk192-120 chips back in to see if I can get to a known starting point, but unsire about which one was on the left or right. At this point, I don't think it matters.

I agree.....It's not going to make a difference which one is right or left....
Your pix will still be messed up like it was....
From what you described in your first post ,I think they were both bad...

When you remove the "New" ones , mark them so you know where they came out of....
In circuit & on the board they are "7044" & "7045"....
My suggestion would be to use a black marker & mark them where you see STK392-120 on the ICs....
Reason is that we may need to put them back in OR ship them back for replacements....

Quote

I was also thinking about swapping the 2 new ones, side to side, just to see if one of the other pairs blows to verify that one of my chips came in DOA. ...What did you have in mind?

This would be my first choice.... Wink

....
BUT , MARK them as above reccommended....
Replace all bad resistors...
IF you get a different pair smoking , One of your "new" ICs IS bad....
IF the same pair is smoking , then I suspect a bad yoke....
To prove whether it is yoke related , then I would re-install the original ICs & watch for smoke....
IF no smoke , the "new" ICs are the problem , I THINK...

Your meter seems to be OK....
Even tho there is a difference in the readings , that appears to be the yokes & not your meter....
Two tenths of an ohm difference , while it causes concern , may be OK....

BTW;...WHERE did you get the NEW ICs from ????

GOOD LUCK...... Sly

.....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

shelbydogg
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Jun 18, 2010, 1:04 AM

Post #14 of 27 (5076 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I really hate to say where I git my new ICs from, but I got them here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/...geName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

He has almost 6000 in feedback so it looks like a commercial dealer. I cheaped out but that seems to be the going rate.
I got my resistors from Digikey.com
It may be a week before an update. I'm trying to fix an electrical problem with my van and I'm in the middle of restoring an old muscle car and getting it ready for paint.
Thanks for your help Ron. I'll post again after I put the old ICs back in or swap the new ones.

Rob

Ron.M
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Jun 18, 2010, 9:13 PM

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shelbydogg;.....

NO problem with where you got the ICs OR the price.....
Nice to see they are Sanyo ICs & the seller has 0 negative comments....

Quote

I'll post again after I put the old ICs back in or swap the new ones.

Please go in the order I suggested....
Swap the new ones first , then re-install the originals....
We need to determine the condition of the "New" ones....
Then , we can see what the originals do....
OK....THANKS.....

Good Luck.... Sly

....

See ya back in about a week.... Wink

...

Later....Ron.M..... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

shelbydogg
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Jun 18, 2010, 10:51 PM

Post #16 of 27 (5065 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well, I was slow at work today so I already changed one out. I marked my old ones: old-1 and old-2 , new ones: new-1 and new-2.
I pulled the NEW-1 out and soldered in it's place, OLD-1. I'll try it tonight and see what happens.

jts1957
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Jun 18, 2010, 11:50 PM

Post #17 of 27 (5063 views)
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Re: [shelbydogg] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

As long as "1" is ALWAYS the left (or front, or right, or rear). Crazy

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

shelbydogg
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Jun 22, 2010, 8:10 PM

Post #18 of 27 (5043 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

As long as "1" is ALWAYS the left (or front, or right, or rear). Crazy

The cars that I work on, parts ending with an ODD number are always the driver's side, EVEN passenger side. No rightside-leftside, looking at the front, looking from the rear, etc. So to me, looking at the numbers on the ICs (stk3292-120) 1 is rear and 2 is front.

So after installed OLD-1 in 1 and NEW-2 in 2, 2 different pair of resistors burnt open. I don't have my list in front of me at the moment.

So I installed 4 more 6.8 ohm resistors and installed OLD-2 into slot 1 and left NEW-2 in slot 2 (front).

So this combination doesn't fry anything and the TV stays on. So I still have and old IC installed.

It looks like the vertical deflection is bad only for the RED tube. I can stare right into the red tube and see that the deflection is not all the way to the top or bottom. Are these controlled by the convergence chips also?

My original video also had this problem before I replaced any ICs , but I remember the convergence being off in the center. I can adjust the center convergence now,but I notice the blue jumping up and down a little bit like noise. Also, when I look into the blue tube, I can see streaks, like the cooling fluid will have to be changed too. I see a few streaks in the green tube and none in the red tube.

This is how my video looks. You can see that the red deflection does not lay over the blue and green in the closed caption letters. What do you think? Get another new IC to start over or move to another circuit in the RED area?

chris_wehr
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Jul 4, 2010, 2:11 AM

Post #19 of 27 (5001 views)
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Re: [shelbydogg] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I hope we get this one solved as I have the same problem, I have 3157 and 3158 resisters getting hot each time I put a new IC in and these are tied to 7045. When I put the board in the TV comes on with still blue concave lines on tv. As soon as I punch in the convergence code it knocks out the IC, TV goes off, starts chirping, and the two new resistors get hot. My yokes seem fine. I have taken this IC out and TV comes back on, put old IC back in and TV stays on, but cannot move Blue convergence up or down. I was wondering if the blue is too far out of sinc; or if the problem was the auto convergence board; or if a cap was bad. The two resistors got hot but still measure fine. I have the board out, wondering what I should do next. Hopefully we all can fine an answer. My tv looked the same as the last few pictures above. But on mine it is the blue that I cannot control up or down.

(This post was edited by chris_wehr on Jul 4, 2010, 2:18 AM)

shelbydogg
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Jul 4, 2010, 6:29 AM

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Re: [chris_wehr] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

My friend seems to think it is still one of the convergence ICs causing the red deflection problems. Since moving my chips around, my TV stays on without burning anymore resistors. I;m just thinking that I'm back to my original problem since one old IC is still in there. With the other ICs 2 or 4 resistors would smoke, with different ones smoking depending on which IC was in which slot. I e-mail the vendor and told him that one of the new ICs was DOA and smoked my resistors so he is sending me a new one. When I get it, I'll see if it corrects the problem. Let me know if you get yours figured out.

chris_wehr
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Jul 4, 2010, 6:13 PM

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chris_wehr
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Jul 5, 2010, 4:45 AM

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Ron.M
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Jul 5, 2010, 6:42 PM

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chris_wehr;.....

Quote

I was hoping Ron might have another idea

Nope , Right now , I still think it may be an IC problem.....

Later...Ron.M..... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Ron.M
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Jul 9, 2010, 5:43 PM

Post #24 of 27 (4936 views)
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Re: [chris_wehr] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

chris_wehr;....

One of the things that bothers me about replying to you here is this;....
This thread was started by "shelbydogg".....
He gets a notification email every time someone replies to his thread....
I'm not sure he's happy about responding to a notification email only to find out that the reply is NOT for his problem.....
In short , we have apparently hijacked his thread....
This is a suggestion ONLY....
Even tho you have the EXACT same model TV with the same problem , it probably would be best if you started a new thread of your own....
I'm willing to help you as best I can , but would feel more comfortable in your thread....

Your Call.....

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

......
Veteran & Retired TV technician

shelbydogg
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Jul 18, 2010, 1:45 PM

Post #25 of 27 (4895 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Philips 60PP9363H17 Convergence Resistor values? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I e-mailed the Ebay guy that I got my I.C.s from an told him that I suspected that one of the chips was D.O.A. and that it fried my resistors. I sent the old one back and he replaced it. I installed it in the rear position since that one got me back to a known starting point and nothing was smoking. IT FIXED IT!

Thanks for the help with the resistors Ron. I ended up buying 10 as a cushion and ended up using all 10 before this was over.
The picture looks fine but I see the coolant over the blue and green tubes starting to cloud. I'll save that project for when it gets real bad.
I'm thinking of putting some kind of thermostat-controlled fan over the heat sink for the convergence I.C.s. I can see why they only lasted 5 years and don't know why they didn't fail sooner. They run very-very HOT.
Thanks for all your help,
Rob

(This post was edited by shelbydogg on Jul 18, 2010, 9:14 PM)

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