Problems with Phillips Projection TV


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Problems with Phillips Projection TV - Missing Blue

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ryan42
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Apr 8, 2010, 12:10 AM

Post #1 of 11 (6901 views)
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Problems with Phillips Projection TV - Missing Blue	Can't Post

Hello everyone. Recently I acquired a free 60" Phillips Projection TV model 60PP9363H/17. When I powered it up I quickly noticed that the convergence was messed up beyond alignment and that there was no blue. For some reason I assumed that once I replaced the convergence ICs and resistors the blue would come back. It did not.

All the convergence ICs and resistors were replaced and I have double checked my soldering. The red and green are in perfect convergence.

If I were to try to put into words the problem that I'm having I would say the blue tube has no drive. With the blue screen control all the way down it's still a faint blue over the face of the tube and the higher you move the screen control the brighter it gets. It seems like the signal just isn't there, but I'm not sure what to check next.

The cooling fluid needs to be replaced as well, as the green is extremely hazy, but I'm reluctant to invest in that project before I have some signal on blue.

There is also a scratch on the front of the screen which is extremely frustrating to me because it was put on there due to the carelessness of the person who gave it to me so they could get it out of their garage. I am not sure if there is a trick to buffing this out or if replacement of the front plastic is possible but if not, the TV is going to be given to a friend who is not concerned with the scratch, so it really only bothers me.

Anyway, the main problem is the blue.

The test equipment I have at my disposal includes a volt meter and oscilloscope.

I would be very appreciative of any suggestions.

Thanks! :)

Ron.M
Veteran

Apr 8, 2010, 8:29 PM

Post #2 of 11 (6894 views)
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Re: [ryan42] Problems with Phillips Projection TV - Missing Blue [In reply to]	Can't Post

ryan42;....

Remove the front screen (The one with the scratch you hate) & take a look
directly at the CRT screens thru the lens....
Start with the red...
Kinda creep up on it as it WILL be a bright pix & you need to give your eyes
time to adjust to the brightness...
The pix in the red CRT should be bright , clear & in focus...
Next look into the green CRT..
This is the one you said is "hazy"...
There's probably a LOT of crud in there....
Now look in the blue.....
This one will (should) be LOADED with gunk , etc...
To confirm the presence of video in the blue CRT , you
need to turn up screen control (GRADUALLY) as you did & look CLOSELY for
darker spots that move with the changes of video scenery...
Chances are that the CRT is OK....
The older Magnavox/Philips Projection TV CRTs WERE made to last....
Certainly a LOT longer than the newer sets...
Too bad they used a poorly refined coolant in a humongus
amount of their big screen TVs....

Once you have a scratch gouged in the screen , there's NO way that
I've found OR seen to fix it...
Look closely at the front of the screen & you'll see it's grooved...
Once you smashed , flattened , or gouged them , etc , they're gone forever...
If you "buff it out" you WILL only be making a LARGER problem !!!.... Unsure

...
Replacement screens have dropped dramatically in price & can be gotten fairly easily....

Let me/us know what you find....OK....THANKS.... Laugh

...

GOOD LUCK.... Sly

....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

ryan42
New User

Apr 10, 2010, 4:25 PM

Post #3 of 11 (6888 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Problems with Phillips Projection TV - Missing Blue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron sir, you are exactly right! I followed your suggestion and removed the front plastic. This story has two happy endings.

Firstly, I am familiar with the grooved plastic you're speaking of but this TV is flat on the front. When I pulled off the front bezel I had the pleasure of finding out that there is a plain old piece of plexiglass(!) mounted in front of the grooved sheet you're talking about. Remove that and the picture quality goes up dramatically. No glare and no scratch. I've put it back in just incase something happens in the course of moving it.

When I removed removed the next piece I found that indeed, the blue CRT looks like it's working but the image is hard pressed to get through all that gunk. I would have never imagined that the algae would have almost blocked out the image but indeed, that's what's happening.

I will look into ordering the CRT coolant fluid and into cleaning the optics and replacing the fluid. Do you have any suggestions for this? I have the service manual for the TV so that should guide me through removing the CRTs from the TV to drain the fluid... I've just never done it before.

Thanks a bunch for your suggestion. It's something I would have really never considered had you not asked me to check it. Smile

Ron.M
Veteran

Apr 10, 2010, 6:40 PM

Post #4 of 11 (6883 views)
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Re: [ryan42] Problems with Phillips Projection TV - Missing Blue [In reply to]	Can't Post

ryan42;.....

You got lucky.....
That top layer is a protective clear plastic screen....
You can get that cheap at your bigger hardware stores (I think)...
Get the thin stuff that matches yours....
Just measure the old one & they should cut it to your dimensions....
The grooved one is the one that'll hurt your wallet.... Unsure

...
It's wise to use the clear one especially if you have kids....

First go here & read ALL the steps for coolant change....

http://www.riddledtv.com/...RTCoolant/index.html

This is a generic proceedure & NOT NECCESSARILY for your model , but
it gives you an idea of what you are in for...
Do NOT follow the exact proceedure outlined there....
When you are ready , I'll help you as best as I can.....

As for coolant;....
99.9999% of the time the "red" CRT coolant is clear & does
not need to be changed....
So I reccomend you ONLY do the green & blue CRTs...
For that you will need 2 bottles of coolant....
I reccomend you get them here as MCM is a GOOD , Reputable &
trustworthy company to do bussiness with....

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/20-4275

$9.49 each +s&h....x 2

As for the manual;....
Which one do you have & where can I get a free copy of it ????
I have a generic Philips manual that may/may not be too accurate for your TV....
So the right manual might be a help to both of us....

You said;=>....
"""Do you have any suggestions for this? I have the service manual for the TV so that should guide me through removing the CRTs from the TV to drain the fluid... I've just never done it before. """
Yes , I probably will have some suggestions for you once I see the service manual.....
The service manual is written by technicians FOR technicians....
But , this is NOT a hard job to do....You have to follow step by step proceedure....
The coolant IS VERY caustic to PC boards & also TOXIC (Poison)....
Do NOT get any of it on boards as it will eat up components & connections....
This reason ^^^ is why I'm going to insist you remove the CRTs from the TV.,...
Do NOT get any of it on you as it absorbs thru the skin....Wash it off ASAP....
With common sense & proper info , you should have NO problems doing this.....

One last question;=>...

How much electronic/TV repair background experience do you have ????

GOOD LUCK..... Sly

....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Apr 12, 2010, 7:42 PM)

ryan42
New User

Apr 21, 2010, 4:22 AM

Post #5 of 11 (6855 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Problems with Phillips Projection TV - Missing Blue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well, an update.

Firstly, thank you very much for your help so far.

I got the fluid in and we replaced the green and blue CRT fluid. The picture is now clear but I have another problem.

I can't converge blue, and the green starts off in focus then starts getting bigger and blurrier then snaps back to being in focus over and over again, faster if there's more green on the screen. About 1 or 2 cycles per second it does this.

I double checked connections. One thing I'm concerned about is the HV retaining clips as I had to make new ones because the old ones just fell apart. If that wasn't making good contact I wouldn't have any picture at all though, right?

I looked over my soldering on the convergence ICs and that looks good. I was not able to, as the instructions say, converge red then use it as a reference for the "physical" convergence of the blue because I was unable to see red at all on the screen.

Any suggestions for these problems?

As for the electronics question, I regularly repair Hammond organs and other audio equipment, though I'm kind of slow at it. :)

As for the service manual, I received it from TVRepairkits when I ordered my convergence ICs. I can send you a copy if you would like by yousendit.com or direct email if your provider will receive large attachments. It's 11.4 MB.

shoofeetv
New User

Apr 21, 2010, 5:00 AM

Post #6 of 11 (6853 views)
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Re: [ryan42] Problems with Phillips Projection TV - Missing Blue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Phillips 55" rear projection tv model #55pp970104. When you select the picture source button a screen comes up with various selections. The set has an AUX 4 HD Y PbPa connection. It was originally set on Antenna A but that commection burned out causing the entire picture to be pink. http://www.shoofeetv.com/ar/lisitngs/

Ron.M
Veteran

Apr 21, 2010, 8:45 PM

Post #7 of 11 (6843 views)
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Re: [ryan42] Problems with Phillips Projection TV - Missing Blue [In reply to]	Can't Post

ryan42;....

shoofeetv is an IDIOT ...
Ignore him/her/it....

For the green focus problem;...
Check BOTH ends of the red wire going into the green CRT socket for good secure connections...

You said;=>..."""I can't converge blue""
We'll get to that one later..

Can you take & post pix ???
I may need to see certain areas...

"""One thing I'm concerned about is the HV retaining clips as I had to make new ones because the old ones just fell apart. If that wasn't making good contact I wouldn't have any picture at all though, right?""
NOT neccessarily....I need to see what you mean by;>""I had to make new ones""

""""I was not able to, as the instructions say, converge red then use it as a reference for the "physical" convergence of the blue because I was unable to see red at all on the screen."""
Something is NOT right with that statement !!!...The green convergence is FACTORY SET.....
After you change the coolant , you converge the red & blue to the green CRT....
Usually all that is needed are touch-up adjustments...
You do NOT use the red (OR BLUE) for ANY references....
If you are missing a color , do NOT do convergence adjustments....

As for the manual;...
My email service can handle the manual with no problem.... Smile

..
However....NO OFFENSE , NOTHING PERSONAL , BUT , I'm leary
of giving out my email address to ANYONE... Unsure

...
Has to do with all this money the Nigerians are sending me.... Wink

...
Don't want to screw that up....Yeah..Right....

What is yousendit.com & how does it work ???
If it's like boxstr , no problem....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Apr 21, 2010, 8:47 PM)

ryan42
New User

Apr 21, 2010, 11:30 PM

Post #8 of 11 (6837 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Problems with Phillips Projection TV - Missing Blue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Agh! Again you got it.

The green anode wire isn't seating well because there's a broken off piece of the old clip down in the hole. Is there capacitance in that transformer like there is in a tube TV? The only way I can see to fish that stupid clip out is with something like a crochet needle. If it holds a charge though I'll make something out of plastic.

As for convergence... It was late and I really fudged up on the color names. I'll go back and look at the set after I get the clip out.

Thanks again!

Oh, I'll upload the manual somewhere and send you a PM with the link. Smile

Ron.M
Veteran

Apr 22, 2010, 2:31 AM

Post #9 of 11 (6829 views)
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Re: [ryan42] Problems with Phillips Projection TV - Missing Blue [In reply to]	Can't Post

ryan42;....

""""Agh! Again you got it."""
I know....It's a curse........

You said;=>..."""Is there capacitance in that transformer like there is in a tube TV?"""
You are confusing capacitance with "holding a charge"....There's NO capacitance down there....BUT , you can STILL get knocked on your @$$ because the CRTs hold a charge.....There is a SAFE way to discharge that voltage....

Before you do ANYTHING with this , PLEASE answer my question;=>....
Can you take & post pix ???
I may need to see certain areas... <<IMPORTANT !!!....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

ryan42
New User

Apr 27, 2010, 5:45 AM

Post #10 of 11 (6809 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Problems with Phillips Projection TV - Missing Blue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Ron. Sorry that it has been a while since I responded. My car started having problems overheating last week so all my attention turned towards getting that fixed so I can get to work and school.

My friend that I am giving the set to came over the other night and wanted to try to mess with the set. He had some ideas about getting the retaining clip piece out and it was quickly and successfully recovered by use of a whittled plastic dowel.

Once that was out I securely connected the HV wires. Sure enough, the aquadag wasn't being powered inside and that was causing the focus issue. Then we still had the convergence problem. Blue would go side to side but not up and down.

I flipped the board over and he almost immediately noticed not a bad solder joint, but a damaged PCB trace near a resistor that I looked over when checking my work. I jumpered around it, powered the set, and after about 30 minutes of multipoint convergence setup (ick!) and setting the brightness of the CRTs evenly (harder than I thought it would be as well) the set looks absolutely wonderful!

Today we took it to his house and safely transported it inside, and hooked it up to his equipment. That's when we found out that the 1080i mode has a separate convergence adjustment than the 480i/p modes. So we converged, again. My thoughts are that the blue CRT is a little high gain, but other than that the set looks great.

Thanks so much for your assistance. Without your kind help this set would still be taking up (a ton of) space in my living room for many more months. My friend Chris also sends his regards as you have helped him attain a very good working set for less than $100 in parts and supplies.

I hadn't seen your reply before we finished repairing the set regarding photos of the insides. Are there still things that we should look into before we consider it a completed project? I'm a little embarrassed about sharing the HV retaining clips I fashioned. Blush

They aren't exactly professional grade. Smile

Thanks again, and regards,
--Ryan

Ron.M
Veteran

Apr 27, 2010, 6:41 PM

Post #11 of 11 (6799 views)
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Re: [ryan42] Problems with Phillips Projection TV - Missing Blue [In reply to]	Can't Post

ryan42;....

Glad to see that ALL your TV & Car problems are solved.....
ENJOY BOTH !!!!

Quote

My thoughts are that the blue CRT is a little high gain, but other than that the set looks great.

Try turning the blue screen control a tad counterclockwise...

Quote

Are there still things that we should look into before we consider it a completed project?

No , you did it all.....

You & Chris ARE MOST Welcome....

Enjoy.....

BTW;...
The service manual they gave you is EXACTLY the one I have already on my computer....THANK you VERY much anyway....(1,848 pages).... Sly

....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

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