Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks


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Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks

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jayaram_c
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Nov 13, 2012, 12:18 PM

Post #1 of 50 (6565 views)
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Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks	Can't Post

I am having some trouble in my 5 yrs old sony wega Trinitron: KV-HP212M83 greenish blackout and blinks 2 times

When I PowerON sound is normall till the green LED blinks and screen is activated.

when the screen is activated with completely greenish color (No picture) with retrace lines, and in 2 seconds the brightness increases and the system moves to standby mode with 2 blinks.

I have checked swapping R756 and R757 across PIN 9 and 10. The same green color comes back and system dies. I have even tried to remove all the cathode input resistors but no use.

When I disconnect the connector C703 (200v and H1) the sound works normal without shutdown and no picture.

Also during my troubleshooting session the system returned normal and died after 10 min of watching picture.

I feel this could be problem with the H-K short from my perspective. But it would be good if some experts share ideas/workaround to get away from this problem.

(This post was edited by jayaram_c on Nov 14, 2012, 2:56 AM)

jts1957
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Nov 13, 2012, 10:08 PM

Post #2 of 50 (6545 views)
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Re: [jayaram_c] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

You may want to do a search for "heater to cathode shorts" and peruse the results. For example:

http://www.tv-forums.com/...hode%20short;#144958

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

jayaram_c
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Nov 14, 2012, 3:20 AM

Post #3 of 50 (6538 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have referred the thread. But even though isolation is done for the filament the thread owner seems to be having the same problem.

Does my symptom of 2 amber blinks is only because of H-K short or it could be anything else which I have to check it out.

jayaram_c
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Nov 15, 2012, 3:31 AM

Post #4 of 50 (6528 views)
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Re: [jayaram_c] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

can someone help with a picture how a wire is winded across flyback for the heater please...

I am worried to handle flyback transformer.

mel
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Nov 15, 2012, 4:16 AM

Post #5 of 50 (6527 views)
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Re: [jayaram_c] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

First unplug the CRT board and see if the two blinks continues. The two blinks usually indicates an over current condition which usually resultes in a complete shutdown. The two windings go around the powdered core of the flyback. This is the backward "C" appearing thingy that is on the side of the flyback.

jayaram_c
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Nov 15, 2012, 4:14 PM

Post #6 of 50 (6523 views)
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Re: [mel] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Mel.

Although I have given my troubleshooting steps in my initial thread, just to highlight

I have tried removing 200v and Heater (C703) connector from CRT board the system runs without shutdown.

I believe it could be H-K short.

It could be helpful if you show a picture how an isolation wire wind over flyback and taken to CRT heater.

I am much worried in working with flyback. Will there be any problem in doing this isolation technique.

mel
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Nov 15, 2012, 11:49 PM

Post #7 of 50 (6515 views)
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Re: [jayaram_c] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Uh oh! From the not so good picture in the service manual, it does not look like there is a gap between the core and the flyback case. If not, I don't have a solution.

jayaram_c
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Nov 16, 2012, 3:08 AM

Post #8 of 50 (6514 views)
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Re: [mel] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Mel, If you could provide some pictures of how it was done, would be helpful.

mel
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Nov 16, 2012, 3:22 AM

Post #9 of 50 (6513 views)
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Re: [jayaram_c] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

I do not have a picture of how it is done. Try posting a pix of your flyback and I can tell you if you are out of luck for ANY repair.

Ron.M
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Nov 16, 2012, 9:10 PM

Post #10 of 50 (6507 views)
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Re: [mel] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

mel & jayaram_c;....

I'm NOT looking for any argument here , just trying to give a second opinion...
I have not been able to find a service manual for KV-HP212M83 ...

My thoughts based on what I've read so far is that maybe it's not a H-K short after all....
Removing the cathode input resistors should have effectively isolated the cathodes from the heater elements & you still should have gotten sound...
The drivers then would see an "open" CRT...
Removing the 200v source stops the CRT from drawing any screen current , therefore NO shutdown...
I would suggest that you take a closer look at the driver circuits on the CRT panel or the RGB jungle IC...
Based on the color you said the screen is before it shuts down , I would look at the blue driver circuit or the output from the RGB IC...

Quote

I have tried removing 200v and Heater (C703) connector from CRT board the system runs without shutdown.

Does NOT rule out the driver circuits OR the RGB IC....

Have a GREAT day & weekend... Sly

...

Good Luck.... Sly

...

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jayaram_c
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Nov 17, 2012, 3:33 AM

Post #11 of 50 (6501 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

ohh.. I really appreciate Ron for your opinion.

I have missed out your thought that even after opening all cathode inputs the same problem arises and that could say there is no CRT H-K short.
On the other way this connector had heater voltage also.

I will try to look at the jungle IC and share the feedback...

Ron.M
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Nov 18, 2012, 2:09 AM

Post #12 of 50 (6492 views)
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Re: [jayaram_c] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

jayaram_c;.....

Quote

On the other way this connector had heater voltage also.

I presume you're talking about the connector that goes down to the chassis...
That being the case , it means that the flyback is working as it should...

I also presume you have the service manual..
When you get to the RGB jungle IC , the R , G & B output pins should read almost the same dc volts...
If there is a large difference in one of the readings , the IC is bad..

Have fun & GOOD LUCK... Sly

...

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jayaram_c
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Nov 18, 2012, 3:11 AM

Post #13 of 50 (6487 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes Ron, CN703 is the connector I was referring on page 33.

http://manualfinders.com/Service-Manuals/Sony-Service-Manuals/Sony-Electronics/SONY-KV-HW21M60-Service-Manual/SONY-KV-HW21M60-Service-Manual.html

I tried disconnecting R794 and i get the system running without picture and no shutdown.

But i am wondering if the jungle IC is faulty how it worked intermittently in between for 10 min while i was troubleshooting the problem, with no changes. I may not be able to test the RGB out also as it shutdown immediately.

Will there be any other known issue in these type of boards or any other components like caps/resistors.

Ron.M
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Nov 18, 2012, 10:19 PM

Post #14 of 50 (6475 views)
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Re: [jayaram_c] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

jayaram_c;....

We have some confusion here that needs to be clarified....

You said;=>...

Quote

Yes Ron, CN703 is the connector I was referring on page 33.

I don't HAVE a page 33...
I don't have ANY pages !!!!

The model number in your 1st post is;...""KV-HP212M83""
I said in post #10;=>..

Quote

I have not been able to find a service manual for KV-HP212M83 ...

That IS still the case...

Then you post a link for another model;=>...

Quote

http://manualfinders.com/...-Service-Manual.html

There is NO way to download the manual from that website... Unsure

....
Also , that is for a different model (KV-HW21M60) that I found at another website.....
Two of the models listed there are for Vietnamese & 1 is for "ME" , whatever & whereever that is.....

This is where I found several listings for "free" "KV-HW21M60" manuals...
http://elektrotanya.com/...egoria=&kat2=all

Now before I waste my time downloading a manual that will not be correct for your TV , I need to make sure you are giving me correct info...
There are 7 manual possibilities there...
Since I am on slooowww dial-up , it will take me some serious time to download a manual...
SOOoooo, how about looking on the model number label & posting the "SCC" & the "BX" & the correct model number that is on the label...
THANKS... Sly

...

As for the RGB voltages , I see that we can get them easier at a different place...
Do you have a DMM/DVM ???

Have a great day.... Sly

...

Later..Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jayaram_c
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Nov 20, 2012, 3:16 AM

Post #15 of 50 (6461 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Ron,

The link what I posted for another model has the same circuit for CRT and there is no changes. So if you refer page 33 on the same link you can get the layout of this CRT board.

R794 is the 47ohm resistor passing 200v to VDD of jungle IC.

I have another query like if all the cathodes resistors are opened i think we are isolating this jungle IC RGB outputs, in that case also I am facing the same problem. Not sure where we are missing..

Anyway I plan to change this IC as a last step to isolate this problem.

I have DMM, but its hard to measure the voltage in a second before shutdown..

Ron.M
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Nov 20, 2012, 6:44 PM

Post #16 of 50 (6454 views)
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Re: [jayaram_c] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

jayaram_c;....

Quote

Anyway I plan to change this IC as a last step to isolate this problem.

My advice , do NOT change the Jungle IC YET !!!!

We have NOT yet determined whether or not it is the cause & you can complicate the problem making it worse !!!

You said;=>..

Quote

I have another query like if all the cathodes resistors are opened i think we are isolating this jungle IC RGB outputs, in that case also I am facing the same problem.

Are you STILL shutting down instantly ???
Is the CRT module OFF the CRT when this happens ???

Remember this??:=>...

Quote

Removing the cathode input resistors should have effectively isolated the cathodes from the heater elements & you still should have gotten sound...

Nuff said there...

Quote

R794 is the 47ohm resistor passing 200v to VDD of jungle IC.

There is NO 200v going to the jungle IC...
You are a bit confused..
You may be thinking of the video driver IC on the CRT ...Correct ????

Quote

I have DMM, but its hard to measure the voltage in a second before shutdown..

IF you'd ALLOW me to advise you & follow my advice , you may get the TV fixed with ACCURATE parts replacement & lowest cost...
IF NOT , I'm outta here...

Quote

I have DMM, but its hard to measure the voltage in a second before shutdown..

I thought we had the set so you have NO pix , just sound...
What changed ???

IF you'll give me some time , I'll download a manual later today & we can proceed on a hunt for the defect...

It's your TV....
It's your money....
It's your call !!!

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jayaram_c
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Nov 24, 2012, 5:20 AM

Post #17 of 50 (6433 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

________________________________________ Quote ________________________________________
Anyway I plan to change this IC as a last step to isolate this problem.
________________________________________

My advice , do NOT change the Jungle IC YET !!!!

We have NOT yet determined whether or not it is the cause & you can complicate the problem making it worse !!!

You said> I am bit confused on which one is jungle IC, I thought of TDA6108 video driver. I got a reference from http://www.avrepair.info/faults/VL016619.HTM where I have seen a feedback, but this doesn�t help me anyway. I have tried replacing it.

Bright green raster with flyback lines
Replace the TDA6107Q on tube base panel

________________________________________ Quote ________________________________________
I have another query like if all the cathodes resistors are opened i think we are isolating this jungle IC RGB outputs, in that case also I am facing the same problem.
________________________________________
Are you STILL shutting down instantly ???

You said> Yes, even after opening all the cathode resistors the same green raster with flyback lines and shuts down in 2 sec after raster seen in screen with 2 blinks. (means +B overcurrent)

Is the CRT module OFF the CRT when this happens ???

You said> I haven�t tried opening CRT module OFF from the CRT tube, as it requires unsoldering all the pins in this model.

________________________________________ Quote ________________________________________
Removing the cathode input resistors should have effectively isolated the cathodes from the heater elements & you still should have gotten sound...
________________________________________
You said> No, the shut down happens even removing cathode input resistors. I have also tried removing RGB input to C board but same symptom. The only scenario I get sound and No pix is when I remove the 200v input to C board.

________________________________________ Quote ________________________________________
R794 is the 47ohm resistor passing 200v to VDD of jungle IC.
________________________________________
There is NO 200v going to the jungle IC...
You are a bit confused..
You may be thinking of the video driver IC on the CRT ...Correct ????

You said> Yes you are correct. I am referring TDA6108 video driver IC.

________________________________________ Quote ________________________________________
I have DMM, but its hard to measure the voltage in a second before shutdown..
________________________________________
I thought we had the set so you have NO pix , just sound...
What changed ???
You said> Removing 200v input to CRT board.

Note: After this issue started and while i was troubleshooting it. the system ran fine with pix and audio for about 15 min and the same issue started and unable to fix it till now. No changes were done by that time and in fact i was tapping around the tube and tried to burn cathode shorts with 5v input. That was a magic.

Ron, no doubt that I follow you� surely I�ll follow you to get this fixed.

(This post was edited by jayaram_c on Nov 24, 2012, 8:01 AM)

Ron.M
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Nov 24, 2012, 8:17 PM

Post #18 of 50 (6417 views)
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Re: [jayaram_c] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

jayaram_c;....

IF Anybody can make some sense outta that last post , PLEASE tell me what meds I'm missing out on...

I NEED to clarify some more confusion....

I'm going to start at the begining...

1)...Does this STILL happen ??..

Quote

When I disconnect the connector C703 (200v and H1) the sound works normal without shutdown and no picture.

Yes or no ....

2)...

Quote

I have even tried to remove all the cathode input resistors but no use.

No use which way ???
Does the set STILL shutdown or do you STILL get sound but no pix ???

The confusion started when you called the Video Driver IC on the CRT module a "Jungle" IC which IS an IC in the set that does multiple functions...

3)...

Quote

No changes were done by that time and in fact i was tapping around the tube and tried to burn cathode shorts with 5v input. That was a magic.

Makes little or no sense ...
How do you burn out a short in a CRT with 5 VOLTS ?????
What results did you get when you tapped the tube (CRT neck ???) or ???....

I'm going to download a manual so we both can be on the same page...
This will take some time to do as I'm on slooooww dial-up...
I intend to be back later today or tomorrow for sure....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jayaram_c
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Nov 25, 2012, 5:41 AM

Post #19 of 50 (6410 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I NEED to clarify some more confusion....

I'm going to start at the begining...

1)...Does this STILL happen ??..

Quote

When I disconnect the connector C703 (200v and H1) the sound works normal without shutdown and no picture.

Yes or no ...
When 200v is disconnected system runs without shutdown.

2)...

Quote

I have even tried to remove all the cathode input resistors but no use.

No use which way ???
Does the set STILL shutdown?? YES

3)...

Quote

No changes were done by that time and in fact i was tapping around the tube and tried to burn cathode shorts with 5v input. That was a magic.

Makes little or no sense ...
How do you burn out a short in a CRT with 5 VOLTS ?????
What results did you get when you tapped the tube (CRT neck ???) or ???....

IGNORE THIS, as this was my own testing and seems nothing came out of it.

I'm going to download a manual so we both can be on the same page...
This will take some time to do as I'm on slooooww dial-up...
I intend to be back later today or tomorrow for sure....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...

jayaram_c
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Nov 25, 2012, 5:48 AM

Post #20 of 50 (6409 views)
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Re: [jayaram_c] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

To add an additional input from my troubleshooting, the H.OUT transistor Q805 C5885 B-E is short.

Most of the service manuals says this troubleshooting for +B Overcurrent and by the way I got to check this.

H.OUT (Q805) is shorted. (Yes it is)
IC751 is shorted
(Video driver IC, not faulty. however it is replaced.)

So once I replace Q805 will share you the current status.

jts1957
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Nov 25, 2012, 6:14 PM

Post #21 of 50 (6402 views)
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Re: [jayaram_c] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

TESTING Q805 IN CIRCUIT? There is a very low resistance (secondary winding of a driver transformer) across B-E. Wink

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

Ron.M
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Nov 25, 2012, 8:02 PM

Post #22 of 50 (6399 views)
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Re: [jayaram_c] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

jayaram_c;......

jts1957 is RIGHT !!!
Also some H.OUT transistors have a low value resistor built in so B-E will read low even when the transistor is out of circuit...
Not sure if this one does...
The reading to be concerned about is C-E or C-B ....
OUT OF TV....
That transistor may be OK....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

mel
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Nov 25, 2012, 11:02 PM

Post #23 of 50 (6396 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

Back on the 15th. I wrote disconnect the CRT board from the CRT. This would isolate the CRT short and the set would not shut down (two blinks would stop and you would still have sound) indicating the the CRT is shorted. Instead, you have done a lot of unnecessary unsoldering and I am still not sure of what actual results you have got. Do the simple thing and post back results

Ron.M
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Nov 26, 2012, 1:01 AM

Post #24 of 50 (6394 views)
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Re: [mel] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

mel;....

1st off , it was on the 14th (Post #5) Not the 15th...
2nd , I totally agree disconnecting the CRT board from the CRT would determine if the CRT was bad...
I presumed wrongly that he had already done that...
IF you take a close look at some of his answers/nonanswers , I'm fairly certain that you'd come to that same conclusion..
I & he have NOT yet done any major unnecessary unsoldering...
Just the HOT & Video Driver IC that I can see so far...
He took it on his own to replace the Video Driver IC without any consultation with me...
IF you read post #17 , I said ""My advice , do NOT change the Jungle IC YET !!!!""
Now keep in mind that he was calling the "Video Driver" IC a "Jungle" IC...
Put the onus on HIM please & NOT me...
THANKS...
There are NO actual results that I can see... Unsure

...

Have a GREAT day .... Sly

....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jayaram_c
New User

Nov 26, 2012, 3:42 AM

Post #25 of 50 (6389 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Sony Wega KV-HP212M83 greenish retrace line with 2 blinks [In reply to]	Can't Post

I am not sure about the resistance in H.OUT transistor. B-E seems to be completely 0 and C-B and C-E is Ok. I have to check the datasheet of this transistor as well.

So the pending activity on my end is to isolate the C board from CRT and post the feedback. Surely I will check this.

It would be helpful if we continue the post without arguments.

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