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Crumbtrail TV Forums: TV Equipment: Projection TV Forum:
Phillips 55p935217

 

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Gus67
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Nov 22, 2009, 5:00 PM

Post #1 of 44 (5380 views)
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Phillips 55p935217 Can't Post

Hello everyone.I have a phillips projection tv that I picked up for free.The tv seems to be missing the blue in the screen but other thaen that appers to work fine.I am an Electronics tech, but really have never worked on TV's before.Where is a good place to start troubleshooting.Also where is the best place to get schematics for this beast?From what I have read here I assume the problem is in the convergence section.



Ron.M
Veteran


Nov 22, 2009, 9:28 PM

Post #2 of 44 (5370 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

Gus67;....

1st off;... I think the correct model # is 55PP9352/17...

I have the manual for your TV.....
It's a 10.1MB file....Too big to upload here....
Before we go any further , the problem does NOT appear to be in the convergence circuit from what you say........

Quote
The tv seems to be missing the blue

Convergence circuit failures do not kill colors , instead they throw them off kilter...Kinda like a 3D effect....
We are going to check the blue CRT...

Here's how;==>

Take the speaker grille cover off...The black part (maybe gray) under the screen...
It may be held on by velcro strips or pop-in balls , so carefully pull on the sides , take it off & set it aside....
Under your front screen at the top area of where the speaker grille was , you'll see 4 one quarter inch screws (OR phillips head screws) spaced accross the front bottom of the large screen assembly...
Use a 1/4" nut driver & remove those screws...
There should be a black cover on the front center bottom...You may need to remove it also...
4~6 1/4" screws to remove the cover....
You need to disconnect the wires running from the menu , vol up , vol dn etc...Follow the wires down thru the removable black cover area....Keep following the the wires to a white connector & disconnect there...
The screen assembly IS a bit wobbly & somewhat flimsy to handle , so USE CARE !!!...
It can be removed in one of 2 ways....
The 1st way is to pull out from the bottom of the screen by grabbing at the bottom on the the sides....
If the bottom pulls away & the top stays , pull the bottom out to about 60* & then remove it from the top part of the set....
When it comes time to re-install the screen the top MUST be in place 1st , at about 60* ,then gently lowered back down to it's normal position....
The 2nd way is to grab the sides & push up....
It will only go so far then you can pull it away from the set....
Notice the hooks on both sides that you will have to re-align the screen on in order to put it back on....
CAREFULLY stand the screen assembly up & out of the way....
NOW:...With a TV signal , turn the TV on....
CAREFULLY gradually peek into the red CRT lens assembly.....
When your eyes adjust , look at the pix....
Chances are that there's a good pix there...
Ease on to the middle CRT (green) & check the pix on that one....
Chances are that is going to have some crap in the pix....Like goop...Crazy....
Now take a look at what is in the blue CRT....
Chances are , there's a LOT of crap in there.....Unsure....
IF the red & green screens show a pix & the blue is completely dark , we have a different problem....

PLEASE post your results & findings & we go from there....

Later...Ron.M...Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Gus67
User

Nov 22, 2009, 11:17 PM

Post #3 of 44 (5366 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron,
This is the kind of direction I was hoping to find ...I will set up and follow your instructions and post my findings.
I should have also mentioned the picture seems a little out of focus (Not a lot) It's tough for me to get a good look at the picture cause I still have it in my garage and it is hooked it up to a old VCR, because I do not have a cable long enough to connect it to the Sat box.
Once I can get it in the house and in a comfortable area to work on with a solid video signal, I will progress with your instructions.
Do you think if I took a good photo of the screen and posted it,would it help in diagnosing this problem?Regardless,I will proceed with your instructions.I believe I see where you are going with this.(Bad Gun,I assume)
Thanks


jts1957
Veteran


Nov 23, 2009, 12:20 AM

Post #4 of 44 (5364 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

Pictures NEVER hurt.
Could be heading for a coolant change.Wink


-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away


Ron.M
Veteran


Nov 23, 2009, 1:34 AM

Post #5 of 44 (5361 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

Gus67;....


Quote
I should have also mentioned the picture seems a little out of focus (Not a lot) ...&...Do you think if I took a good photo of the screen and posted it,would it help in diagnosing this problem?Regardless,I will proceed with your instructions.I believe I see where you are going with this.(Bad Gun,I assume)

Bad Gun , NO , NOT yet...jts1957 wisely smelled it out & stole some of my fun....Unsure....Good to see you have the capability to post pix....Right now , pix aren't needed...Maybe later on...Depending on what your next post says , it looks like a "coolant change" is on the way....


jts1957;....
Remember this;.===>>.
""Ron,
This is the kind of direction I was hoping to find ..."""
Our mutual "rxxxxxr" ever get one of those....



Later...Ron.M....Cool.....&.... Angelic.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Gus67
User

Nov 23, 2009, 3:14 AM

Post #6 of 44 (5357 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

I have to ask...Coolant change? what the ***?
I work on Industrial Electronics.I have never even opened a television.I have read a few books on TV repair..Old books...A Projection TV is Greek to me.I am sure you are laughing at me for my stupid questions..I found this forum a few hours ago hoping for some direction.
Guy's....I know enough to know that I don't know enough..go easy on me...


Gus67
User

Nov 23, 2009, 3:25 AM

Post #7 of 44 (5355 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

All right...A quick search on "Coolant change" gives me a better picture(so to speak,ha ha)
I think I am in the ballpark now.I will know more once I follow Ron's instructions...
I will be back in a few days with my findings.Pirate


Gus67
User

Nov 25, 2009, 11:03 PM

Post #8 of 44 (5335 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

OK.I moved the TV and hooked it up to a good video signal and all 3 colors are functioning.All 3 are also of equal intensity when you look inside the rear panel.

The picture, is not so good but does have all the colors.I believe that it is definitely in need of a coolant change.All indicators I have seen and photos I have looked at match the symptoms this TV has.I believe this is a perfect example of a coolant change candidate.

I ordered the fluid(2 tubes) and will attempt it once it arrives.I have read a few of the other posts about the change.the only question I have is about removing the screen.

Has anybody posted photos in the past of the actual screen removal?I am not too enthusiastic on removing the screen due to the optics involved.Is there a way to remove the CRT's without taking the screen out? or is the screen removal not a big a deal as I think it is..


jts1957
Veteran


Nov 26, 2009, 12:04 AM

Post #9 of 44 (5332 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not that big of deal.
Be careful not to scratch or damage it while its off to the side.Wink


-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away


Gus67
User

Nov 26, 2009, 12:35 AM

Post #10 of 44 (5330 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

I have to tell you..the picture is really not that bad after it warms up a little.

It definitely needs the fluids changed....But Hell..I cannot believe someone gave this thing away..It's a far cry from my 50" plasma..but for free,man you cant beat it.

I will update once the job is done.With pix.

Wish me luck,I'm goin' in...Shocked


mrpainter
New User

Nov 26, 2009, 11:44 AM

Post #11 of 44 (5326 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

Check out the forum on changing the crt coolant. Its not a hard job. Use the guide in the second or third last post it makes the job dead easy. Dont buy coolant use clear mineral oil or baby oil (Same) I did. My pictures perfect now. it took me about 1.5 hours to do the blue crt because I was scared stiff I was going to stuff something up, but after I realised how easy it was it took me about half an hour to do the green CRT. Easy job - use the guide as I said and whip down the supermarket for the baby oil. !!!!!!!!!


mrpainter
New User

Nov 26, 2009, 12:05 PM

Post #12 of 44 (5325 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

Read the forum on changing the crt coolant especially the last few posts its easy. I dont know why every one says to take the screen off, I just unscrewed the back and took out the mirror 5 minutes and its all there to see !!!!!!!!

In Reply To
OK.I moved the TV and hooked it up to a good video signal and all 3 colors are functioning.All 3 are also of equal intensity when you look inside the rear panel.

The picture, is not so good but does have all the colors.I believe that it is definitely in need of a coolant change.All indicators I have seen and photos I have looked at match the symptoms this TV has.I believe this is a perfect example of a coolant change candidate.

I ordered the fluid(2 tubes) and will attempt it once it arrives.I have read a few of the other posts about the change.the only question I have is about removing the screen.

Has anybody posted photos in the past of the actual screen removal?I am not too enthusiastic on removing the screen due to the optics involved.Is there a way to remove the CRT's without taking the screen out? or is the screen removal not a big a deal as I think it is..



Ron.M
Veteran


Nov 27, 2009, 2:19 AM

Post #13 of 44 (5310 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

Gus67;.....

They must have turned off their automatic notification emailer for the holiday as I did not get an email notifying me that you guys posted replies....Mad.....


Quote
I am not too enthusiastic on removing the screen due to the optics involved


Removing the screen as I told you earlier & repeated below will NOT affect the optics....Useing crap coolant (mineral &/or baby oil) will...




SCREEN REMOVAL:...

From post #2;=>

Take the speaker grille cover off...The black part (maybe gray) under the screen...
It may be held on by velcro strips or pop-in balls , so carefully pull on the sides , take it off & set it aside....
Under your front screen at the top area of where the speaker grille was , you'll see 4 one quarter inch screws (OR phillips head screws) spaced accross the front bottom of the large screen assembly...
Use a 1/4" nut driver & remove those screws...
There should be a black cover on the front center bottom...You may need to remove it also...
4~6 1/4" screws to remove the cover....
You need to disconnect the wires running from the menu , vol up , vol dn etc...Follow the wires down thru the removable black cover area....Keep following the the wires to a white connector & disconnect there...
The screen assembly IS a bit wobbly & somewhat flimsy to handle , so USE CARE !!!...
It can be removed in one of 2 ways....
The 1st way is to pull out from the bottom of the screen by grabbing at the bottom on the the sides....
If the bottom pulls away & the top stays , pull the bottom out to about 60* & then remove it from the top part of the set....
When it comes time to re-install the screen the top MUST be in place 1st , at about 60* ,then gently lowered back down to it's normal position....
The 2nd way is to grab the sides & push up....
It will only go so far then you can pull it away from the set....
Notice the hooks on both sides that you will have to re-align the screen on in order to put it back on....
CAREFULLY stand the screen assembly up & out of the way....



Quote
Is there a way to remove the CRT's without taking the screen out?

Yes , there is & it's a bit risky...But I'm not sure yet about whether or not it's going to be any easier for you....I STRONGLY reccommend you take them out thru the front...




Quote
or is the screen removal not a big a deal as I think it is..

IF you just READ my instructions & start it , you'll soon see that it's NOT a big deal....That's the EASIEST part of the whole job ! ! !....


This 1st link gives you a step by step method to change the coolant...
2 VERY STRONG pieces of advice here....
#1=Do NOT under ANY circumstances use the baster method....
Use method #3...
#2=Do ONLY one CRT at a time...Pull one out , clean the lenses , change the fluid , put it back in , re-connect ALL the wires & then do the next one...
To clean the lenses & CRT faces , you can use Windex (ONLY , it leaves NO residue ) ...Just make sure you have it fully wiped off clean & dry...Done it 1,000's of times that way with no problems....

http://www.tv-forums.com/..._convergence_P50090/


The 2nd link is for convergence after you changed out the coolant...
You may / may not need to do these steps....Depends on your results....


http://www.tv-forums.com/...gence_issues_P50073/



PHHHEEEEW! ! !.... That's enough already.....

Any questions ????


Later...Ron.M....Cool......
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Nov 27, 2009, 2:35 AM)


mrpainter
New User

Nov 27, 2009, 3:02 PM

Post #14 of 44 (5297 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Gus67;.....

They must have turned off their automatic notification emailer for the holiday as I did not get an email notifying me that you guys posted replies....Mad.....


Quote
I am not too enthusiastic on removing the screen due to the optics involved


Removing the screen as I told you earlier & repeated below will NOT affect the optics....Useing crap coolant (mineral &/or baby oil) will...




SCREEN REMOVAL:...

From post #2;=>

Take the speaker grille cover off...The black part (maybe gray) under the screen...
It may be held on by velcro strips or pop-in balls , so carefully pull on the sides , take it off & set it aside....
Under your front screen at the top area of where the speaker grille was , you'll see 4 one quarter inch screws (OR phillips head screws) spaced accross the front bottom of the large screen assembly...
Use a 1/4" nut driver & remove those screws...
There should be a black cover on the front center bottom...You may need to remove it also...
4~6 1/4" screws to remove the cover....
You need to disconnect the wires running from the menu , vol up , vol dn etc...Follow the wires down thru the removable black cover area....Keep following the the wires to a white connector & disconnect there...
The screen assembly IS a bit wobbly & somewhat flimsy to handle , so USE CARE !!!...
It can be removed in one of 2 ways....
The 1st way is to pull out from the bottom of the screen by grabbing at the bottom on the the sides....
If the bottom pulls away & the top stays , pull the bottom out to about 60* & then remove it from the top part of the set....
When it comes time to re-install the screen the top MUST be in place 1st , at about 60* ,then gently lowered back down to it's normal position....
The 2nd way is to grab the sides & push up....
It will only go so far then you can pull it away from the set....
Notice the hooks on both sides that you will have to re-align the screen on in order to put it back on....
CAREFULLY stand the screen assembly up & out of the way....



Quote
Is there a way to remove the CRT's without taking the screen out?

Yes , there is & it's a bit risky...But I'm not sure yet about whether or not it's going to be any easier for you....I STRONGLY reccommend you take them out thru the front...




Quote
or is the screen removal not a big a deal as I think it is..

IF you just READ my instructions & start it , you'll soon see that it's NOT a big deal....That's the EASIEST part of the whole job ! ! !....


This 1st link gives you a step by step method to change the coolant...
2 VERY STRONG pieces of advice here....
#1=Do NOT under ANY circumstances use the baster method....
Use method #3...
#2=Do ONLY one CRT at a time...Pull one out , clean the lenses , change the fluid , put it back in , re-connect ALL the wires & then do the next one...
To clean the lenses & CRT faces , you can use Windex (ONLY , it leaves NO residue ) ...Just make sure you have it fully wiped off clean & dry...Done it 1,000's of times that way with no problems....

http://www.tv-forums.com/..._convergence_P50090/


The 2nd link is for convergence after you changed out the coolant...
You may / may not need to do these steps....Depends on your results....


http://www.tv-forums.com/...gence_issues_P50073/



PHHHEEEEW! ! !.... That's enough already.....

Any questions ????


Later...Ron.M....Cool......Come on now ron, affect the optics ???? Its a mirror for gods sake a piece of glass thats slammed into the back of the TV on a production line by some uncareing person who is thinking about when he is going to get his next bowl of rice



Gus67
User

Nov 27, 2009, 3:05 PM

Post #15 of 44 (5296 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the advice Ron.I have been working in the Electronics field for 20+ years,I am more than capable of doing the job.

The reason for my concern with the optics is that I on occasion work with optics that are used with Laser measuring devices.If you do not have the proper information you will cause the device to operate incorrectly and if you do not have the specific factory instructions to align them you are screwed.I want to avoid a similar situation.

As with any project you go into thinking you know everything,you usually screw up due to overconfidence.Hence the reason for all my questions.I am confident in my own knowledge to read,examine,progress,and apply my Mechanical and Electronic background to do an effective job.Thanks to your input.

I posted a thread to see if anyone actually used the mineral oil.Like I said in the thread,they use it in Compasses.My general knowledge of oil and rubber tells me anyone that uses the oil instead of the required coolant is headed for trouble..unless there are special gaskets that tolerate that type of fluid.

I hope no one attempts to use the oil in that capacity.After some thought,I am almost positive it will end up in some type of system failure.But again,who knows..maybe it works better than the coolant,you don't know unless you ask people that have the knowledge in that particular field.

I ordered the fluid on Wednesday hoping it would arrive Friday.I checked this morning and found out it has not shipped yet (Bummer) so my attempt at changing the fluid will have to wait till next week.

I adjusted the color,picture,tint,ect and now have the tv to a tolerable picture. So now, I am not in a hurry to do the job.It will have to wait till next week.Until then I will read,look at photos, familiarising myself and possibly ask more questions.

Again Ron,thanks for the help...


mrpainter
New User

Nov 27, 2009, 3:38 PM

Post #16 of 44 (5294 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not trying to be a know it all and I respect an experts advise thats why I chose to go with the mineral oil because an experienced TV Tech had suggested it and has used and tried it without fail for a number of years. At least its not corrosive if it does leak out ! They use mineral oil in car engines that produce a lot more heat than a globe in a CRT does and generally with rubber seals. So time will tell. It was all about cost and availability for me. $300 AUD for coolant and a wait to get it or $5 bucks and no waiting. The TV cost me $60 to buy. Spend 300 to fix it......... I think not !!!!!


Gus67
User

Nov 27, 2009, 5:31 PM

Post #17 of 44 (5291 views)
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Re: [mrpainter] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

Painter,I do not mean to insult you.Please do not take it like that.
All I am doing is fact finding,who did it,what worked,ect..
I feel Mineral oil could cause trouble....that's my opinion.Thats all,it's not right or wrong..it's just that..an opinion.
It's been my observation that when you have a liquid petroleum based product(other than Motor oil) around seals (that appear like the ones that are on the CRT lenses) the gasket material gets real funky and soft,and also seems to "bleed" the black out the rubber (Rubber is also a petroleum product) add that and heating and cooling= leaking..
Did you ever get WD40 on any old gasket material?That's what I am talking about.I THINK mineral oil would have the same effect.Maybe not today but eventualy after the gasket ages.


jts1957
Veteran


Nov 27, 2009, 6:13 PM

Post #18 of 44 (5288 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

Some reading material on this subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol
http://www.patentstorm.us/...295/description.html


-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away


Gus67
User

Nov 27, 2009, 6:26 PM

Post #19 of 44 (5286 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

   
JTS...
A dilectric for Capacitors?. Transformer coolant?....a personal lubricant?...man it's the wonder lube...I'm goin out to buy a case of it..
sounds like a party in a bottle.
JTS..would you use iton your TV?


jts1957
Veteran


Nov 27, 2009, 6:28 PM

Post #20 of 44 (5284 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

I've only "owned" CRT sets.Smile


-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away


Ron.M
Veteran


Nov 27, 2009, 10:34 PM

Post #21 of 44 (5278 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

mrpainter;....

Did you really have to quote the WHOLE dam post just to say this;....

Quote
......Come on now ron, affect the optics ???? Its a mirror for gods sake a piece of glass thats slammed into the back of the TV on a production line by some uncareing person who is thinking about when he is going to get his next bowl of rice

Who the hell is talking about mirrors here....You!!!....No one else !!!..YET !!!!....The optics he reffers to involves the screen...A NON-ISSUE , since the screen has little or NO effect on optics....The optics I'm reffering to involves the coolant.......Go back & READ IT !!!!....

A taste of your own actions;=>

Quote
I am not trying to be a know it all and I respect an experts advise thats why I chose to go with the mineral oil because an experienced TV Tech had suggested it and has used and tried it without fail for a number of years. At least its not corrosive if it does leak out ! They use mineral oil in car engines that produce a lot more heat than a globe in a CRT does and generally with rubber seals. So time will tell. It was all about cost and availability for me. $300 AUD for coolant and a wait to get it or $5 bucks and no waiting. The TV cost me $60 to buy. Spend 300 to fix it......... I think not !!!!!

I do not consider the alledged "TV "Tech" you talked to a ""TV Tech""....
I don't care what he says , the mineral or baby oil WILL be a problem....
It IS a by-product from gasoline production....
Ethylene-glycol is organic & NOT petrolium based as is mineral oil & will NOT affect the seals used in projection TV CRT's....
IF there's ANY mineral oil in MY car , some idiot spilled it probably on the seats....
NO cars that I know of use mineral oil (at least from the factory)....
Also;..The "OPTICS" of mineral oil ARE very different from CRT coolant...
Years ago , I got a set that some IDIOT replaced the coolant in 1 CRT with tap water (apparently ran out of genuine CRT coolant)....
Guess what:..Could NOT converge nor focus that color.....
Put "real" CRT coolant in it & the convergence dropped right in...
Why , you ask ???....The OPTICAL refractional qualities of water were vastly different than those of the coolant....
Mineral oil or baby oil ARE also different....
It's your TV & I don't care if you use filtered urine for coolant...
As far as cost & availability goes:...I would've waited....
Something to ponder here;...
Generally speaking , manufacturers will make their products as cheaply as possible , yet try to maintain a level of quality about them...
That being the case , WHY did they not choose to use mineral or baby oil ???..
Could it be that there's a durability problem with baby or mineral oil....I think there is...
If you live in a country that charges $300AUD for coolant , how much does a gallon of petro cost ???...OR milk ???...

Gus67;...



Quote
I feel Mineral oil could cause trouble....that's my opinion.Thats all,it's not right or wrong..it's just that..an opinion.
It's been my observation that when you have a liquid petroleum based product(other than Motor oil) around seals (that appear like the ones that are on the CRT lenses) the gasket material gets real funky and soft,and also seems to "bleed" the black out the rubber (Rubber is also a petroleum product) add that and heating and cooling= leaking.. Did you ever get WD40 on any old gasket material?That's what I am talking about.I THINK mineral oil would have the same effect.Maybe not today but eventualy after the gasket ages.

I TOTALLY agree....


Dats it fer now....
Have a good day...




Later...Ron.M....Cool.....






Veteran & Retired TV technician


jts1957
Veteran


Nov 27, 2009, 10:45 PM

Post #22 of 44 (5276 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

My picture has a yellow tint to it and the TV smells of ammonia. I noticed a number of neighborhood pets near it.Wink


-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away


Ron.M
Veteran


Nov 28, 2009, 12:07 AM

Post #23 of 44 (5268 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

jts1957;...


Quote
My picture has a yellow tint to it and the TV smells of ammonia. I noticed a number of neighborhood pets near it.Wink

.......Ya gotta pee thru da straw , man...
Has to be filtered by the watchamacallits in da straw...Wink....
Are you shure you din't get a lotta flies dare too ???...Hmmmm...



Laster...Ron.M.....Cool....
Veteran & Retired TV technician


Gus67
User

Nov 28, 2009, 3:52 AM

Post #24 of 44 (5261 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

Where was the post about the "slamming of optics,ect ect,bowl of rice..yada yada..ect" post? mrpainter has never worked in an electro optical manufacturing environment.

For 15 of the 20 years I worked in Electronics,One of the products I supervised was the production of laser diameter gauges .There was no slamming of anything,at least not on my watch...

I can safely assume the same goes for the production of Projection televisions.Hell there is a much higher profit in consumer electronics so I would also assume the quality control should be somewhat diligent.

Again,my opinion..

I have also been known to get angry when they did not give me my bowl of rice at the end of the day...


jts1957
Veteran


Nov 28, 2009, 1:21 PM

Post #25 of 44 (5256 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to] Can't Post

Sure it wasn't gruel?Cool


-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

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