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Crumbtrail TV Forums: TV Equipment: VCR Repair Forum:
Kinda OT, one for Barry or JTS.

 

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Barry777
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Jul 6, 2010, 1:24 PM

Post #51 of 98 (4274 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Kinda OT, one for Barry or JTS. [In reply to] Can't Post

When you get your scope, this will be a GREAT thing to try it out on, and you'll likely learn a lot about what the TBC is doing to the signal. Hopefully you can get 2 probes with the scope, but you can also just use cables and adaptors and won't even need probes for this experiment:

While leaving your system all connected together so you see the results on the TV, connect scope channel A to the input of the TBC, and Channel B to the output. Set both scope channels to AC coupling, then set both channels to 2 volts/division. Turn on your system and set it up for copying a movie with the TBC hooked up to correct the signal.

Adjust the scope vertical positioning controls to place two traces on the screen, then adjust the time base control so you can see 2 identical waves on each "line" (trace). If the waves are jittery or moving by quickly, adjust the triggering control until they lock in place. You should see fairly identical traces on top and bottom, since you're looking at the same signal on both channels. Now the exciting part:

Bypass the TBC (hopefully it has a bypass switch), and you'll see how the waveform changes on one scope channel. You'll probably see the sync pules changing positions a bit in relation to the other channel - this is the messed up signal before correction, and an excellent way to become familiar with what a scope is designed to do.

Now, you can adjust the time base control to expand the wave and examine one little part for noise, or you can turn the control the other way to see multiple waves. Most techs like to have 2 complete waves on the screen (to make sure we're getting the entire wave), then further adjusting it to get one complete wave. Note that the vertical an time base rotary switches also have an inner knob for fine adjustment, which are normally left all the way up (the calibrated position), but you can adjust them to see things better if needed. Have fun!
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html

(This post was edited by Barry777 on Jul 6, 2010, 1:28 PM)


Barry777
User


Jul 11, 2010, 3:54 AM

Post #52 of 98 (4255 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Kinda OT, one for Barry or JTS. [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, looks like I'm not as cool as I thought I was. Even though one of my 822's has the TBC connections on the back, it's missing the 3 internal boards that make it work. On top of that, looks like that particular TBC option was mainly for transferring to Betacam and U-Matic. Since it has many of the usual TBC controls, it would "probably" work for other stuff too - but I'm not convinced enough of this to look for another machine with the TBC option. I think I will only need time code for my projects, and God knows I have plenty of TC equipment.

If your 822DXU happens to have all the TBC boards installed, I'll be curious to see what it can do.

I have to support your endorsement of Mitsubishi consumer VCR's once again: I picked up 3 home recorded tapes, "History of rock and Roll" parts 1 through 5. I never, ever buy home recordings but wanted to bring back some memories of this series. Tried them in a Magnavox VCR/DVD combo, and got nothing but vertical roll and a very occasional crappy picture. Tried it again in one of my JVC pro machines, but it played at twice normal speed since the tape was recorded at LP speed (professional VCR's usually only work in SP). Played fine in my Akai with an extreme tracking adjustment - not surprising since the tpaes were probably recorded on a lousy machine that was out of alignment.

Wife came home and wanted to watch the Jimmy Buffet concert in the living room, which is where the Akai is. So I brought the tapes into my playroom and stuck one into the Mitsubishi - the one we watch when we're working at our computers. After a few seconds for the auto-tracking to kick in, the picture and sound popped in very nicely. If there was a way to select between normal and Hi-Fi audio, that would be even better. Sometimes you get that 30 Hz "fart" sound when the Hi-Fi tracking isn't quite
perfect. Probably not a hard thing to build into the machine though.
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html

(This post was edited by Barry777 on Jul 12, 2010, 12:58 AM)


heviarti
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Jul 14, 2010, 2:36 AM

Post #53 of 98 (4247 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Kinda OT, one for Barry or JTS. [In reply to] Can't Post

Doesn't matter what it's meant to move the data to or from... just so long as it has composite and puts out NTSC. shame you got jacked on the boards, tho.

This week I'll go and pick up my big machine. I had to take my cat to the vet... and I'm still really worried about his condition. So, I didn't have the money to get it when it came in. If not for my back stock of food i'd have been b0ned. I went to go make some extra money, and the truck I was dispatched in ate it.... at 4 am on Ontario Hill. On my way back from grabbing the boss by the stacking swivel after limping the rig in with a failed electrical system and a failing U-joint Saturday morning I spent my $20 remaining at an estate/moving sale... and walked off with a good $500 worth of material.

Among my haul was a whole bunch of aircraft electrical components, which is where you, my aircraft savvy friend, come in.

The little dash mount lamps I understand. They're pretty cool, and I'll mount some of them in my pickups as soon as I change out the GE 327s for GE 330s. Chassis ground, single hot wire... easy.

However, the dimming indicator lamps are....different. They're about the size of the first two joints of my pinkie when assembled (assembled?!!?!). It takes the same 327/330 lamp, but has three legs, a press to test function, and a twist to dim function (SUPER COOL! :) super complex.. :( ) The only markings are 'OAK IND DIALCO'. Ever seen such a thing? A google search does not turn up any (relevant) results.

I also got a super-neato 3000 RPM mechanical aircraft tach, which I gave to my uncle to fit to his John Deere powered ton truck.

Code




      
    


heviarti
User


Jul 14, 2010, 3:49 AM

Post #54 of 98 (4243 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Kinda OT, one for Barry or JTS. [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh..I forgot, If you have the factory remote there is a button marked 'audio' (at least on my 781) that allows you to switch modes. I can't say I really 'endorse' the mitsu.. the one I have is just pretty nice. I really like hitachi best. I wish they made a monster pro machine.


Barry777
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Jul 14, 2010, 4:12 AM

Post #55 of 98 (4243 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Kinda OT, one for Barry or JTS. [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh man, I do hope your cat will be okay. We're cat lovers too, have 3 of the little monsters and they're just as important and loved as any of my family members (except the wife and her kids of course). I admire you very much for putting your little guy's health before your VCR - something I failed to do a few years ago and will regret the rest of my life.

On the aircraft stuff, I'm strictly a bench tech and the only time I've spent in a small plane was when I flew the darn thing with an instructor telling me what to do (Christmas present from the wife). I was very excited and pretty nervous too. I only work on the electronic boxes inside the plane and don't know anything about the stuff you have - but I can sure find out if you can post pictures. There are a lot of veteran pilots in the place, and they will surely know what you scored. I can at least tell you that almost all aircraft electronics are designed to run at 28 volts AC, 400 Hz. But you do find an occasional 5 volt or 115 volt lighting circuit here and there.

I'm not really disappointed about the missing TBC boards, as long as I don't end up needing them sometime up the road. Until then, it's added complexity I can do without right now. I did a touchup mechanical alignment on my JVC HR-S6900U, a pretty nice consumer grade S-VHS machine that was fluttering a bit on the Hi-Fi audio with those old Rock & Roll tapes. I may have actually misaligned it a bit to play the tapes, but it seems to be playing all other tapes fine too. Picked up a nice Sony DVD player with remote for $15 at the thrift shop, and was unsuccessful at fixing the Magnavox VCR/DVD combo that was occasionally not pulling the tape back into the cassette - though it should have been a pretty easy fix. I usually chuck it if it works great 99 times after I fix it, then finally messes up again. Not worth the time spent babysitting it.

Hope your cat is okay - I can definitely relate. Cats are the coolest pets to have.
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html

(This post was edited by Barry777 on Jul 14, 2010, 4:39 AM)


heviarti
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Jul 14, 2010, 4:38 AM

Post #56 of 98 (4241 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Kinda OT, one for Barry or JTS. [In reply to] Can't Post

 Quig sure pisses me off sometimes, but I'd hate to be without him. He came home with one side of his face all swole up. Big abcess from a fight. They opened it up and I've been applying Weladol. now another is starting on the back of his head in beyond where I can reach with the irrigating syringe, and the tissue around the incision is exhibiting perforation.

I'd hate to think I might lose him, but I do have some kittens out of him and the Siamese.

I hate to bother your email, but I'll send you a few pics of these cool indicators and see if perhaps one of your co-workers knows how to wire 'em up. Think I'll put some in my dodge. Wish I had some more stuff like that. I didn't even realize they were there.... I bought the container for all the toggle switches in it. (I wanted one of the badass spring-loaded locking safety switches for my electric fuel pump.)


Barry777
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Jul 14, 2010, 4:58 AM

Post #57 of 98 (4240 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Kinda OT, one for Barry or JTS. [In reply to] Can't Post

Send away, I'll print them and show them to the guys at work. There's one guy who claims he's not a tech, but probably knows ten times as much as I do - maybe even more. These old Army guys have forgotten more than I'll ever know about this stuff. I might even be able to find out what voltage is needed to run those indicators. You might be in for a little electronics project if they need 28 volts though - maybe an inverter, then a transformer to step the 110 down to 28-ish. I'll find out what I can.

Yeah man, I'm afraid to let our cats out. My old cat Steve would go out and get his ass beat every single night it seemed, and couldn't wait to get back out there for more. Must have been out there competing for a fair maiden.
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html


heviarti
User


Jul 14, 2010, 5:25 AM

Post #58 of 98 (4239 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Kinda OT, one for Barry or JTS. [In reply to] Can't Post

  I'm pretty sure that the 327 bulbs are 28 volt DC. they might glow with 12, but I have that cool DC power supply that'll make almost 20 volt. With the failsafe nature of aircraft hardware, that should be enough to light 'em up if 12 won't do it.

That being said, if I replace the 327 bulbs with 14 volt 330 bulbs, they should drop right into my truck. Think I'll maybe set one up as a run light for the electric fuel pump if I can find out how to wire 'em. Wish I could find a switch to sample my PTO state, and add lamps for engage/disengage, and maybe one for the four wheel as well. (I love my power wagon....)

As a side note I also acquired a '70s vintage LED watch.


Barry777
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Jul 14, 2010, 6:11 AM

Post #59 of 98 (4238 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Kinda OT, one for Barry or JTS. [In reply to] Can't Post

I got this one: Those are tiny rheostats as you know, with two of the terminals changing their resistance as you "twist to dim". The third terminal should be for the "press to test" function, and should have full voltage on it regardless of the dimmer setting when you press the button. The age of these units corresponds to the age of incandescant 7-segment displays, which frequently burned out individual segments from the vibration of the aircraft. So, the "press to test" function sent a voltage to the display driver circuit, which would turn on all segments so all digits read the number "8". This function bypasses all the individual segment lighting by going to that separate circuit that fires all of them at once.

If a pilot was trying to transmit on 109.75 but the display was reading 109.15 instead, he could hit the "press to test" button and confirm that the top segment on the tenths digit was burned out, and that his radio was indeed tuned to 109.75 and just not showing correctly. The internal lamp is probably lit all the time, controlled by the aircraft night lighting, and gets its ground connection from the mounting nut (airframe ground). There is one more possibility, but try this arrangement first. I actually still work on these dinosaurs once in a great while - most of them were on UPS planes, but they finally upgraded to newer stuff about a year ago. Those little half-inch-high displays cost $36 per digit, and a 2-channel control box has 10 of them. They used Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) to vary the brightness, and grounded things to turn them on - as opposed to most other stuff that is always grounded and connects to positive supply voltage to turn it on. Weird!

The "press to test" brightness is generally brighter than the brightest dimmer setting. When flying at night, you want as little light in the cockpit as possible so you can see where you're going, so the highest dimmer setting is about 3/4 of full possible brightness.
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html


heviarti
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Jul 14, 2010, 2:09 PM

Post #60 of 98 (4235 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Kinda OT, one for Barry or JTS. [In reply to] Can't Post

 They're not rheostatic. I disassembled a broken one last night. That pic where you can see through the lens on one, and it's kind of a slit? The 'dimmer' is an iris control that opens that slit or shuts it down tight. Fully mechanical. I did check all three legs of the lamp to the case, and there is no continuity, so it's not a straight chassis ground. I think I'm meant to supply it a ground via wire.

I still haven't got wiring 'em a hundred percent figured out, but one thing's for sure... these are cool and I probably couldn't afford to buy new ones from an aircraft shop. I wish I had a whole coffee can full'o these. I work for a trucking company (as farm labor mostly) and if I finally get put on the road all my switches would get an indicator lamp and an illumination lamp... Just like in a 351 Pete. I also do some side work for another outfit, and their trucks are small and lack any proper instrumentation or controls.

Unfortunately all the toggle switches I got are center off with an intermittent on on one set of poles and a solid on on the other. I need an intermittent off. The International doesn't have a signal switch.

Now I just need some identifier tags for the switches. (I'm about to revamp the auxiliary fuel pump control on my PW.)


heviarti
User


Jul 16, 2010, 7:26 AM

Post #61 of 98 (4228 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Kinda OT, one for Barry or JTS. [In reply to] Can't Post

  I drug out my DC power supply and fed some electricity to my lamps. I got it figured out. One leg is continuity to the test function, center lead is your chassis or signal line, other is your instrument lead. The cool part is you can wire it either way... power feed or ground feed.

Need to go get some 330s now so they'll be bright enough. I'll have to see how bright, because I need a daylight headlamp indicator


heviarti
User


Jul 16, 2010, 7:52 PM

Post #62 of 98 (4226 views)
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IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I went to taters today and picked up my 822. (posting from there infact) it does have problems (pretty major I think) but it does have the TBC connector, and the front panel isn't destroyed. If I can get 'er home in one piece I can start fighting with it.


Barry777
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Jul 17, 2010, 2:23 AM

Post #63 of 98 (4222 views)
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Re: [heviarti] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey man, that is fantastic (not about the problems, but that you finally have an 822), and I hope Quig is doing better. One thing that helps me tremendously at work sometimes is having known good test boards to help isolate problems faster. Should it become necessary, I can test some of your boards in my known good 822's and send them back to you. But we'll try other methods first of course. When you know what all the problems are, we can start figuring out where they might be.

I think only one of my machines worked okay out of the box; the other two had more than one problem. As I remember, there were 3 problems on boards and the rest was just sluggish mechanisms from dried-up lubricant. Since these machines were usually owned and maintained by professionals, they snap right to great performance once repaired. I didn't have to perform either mechanical or electronic alignments on any of them - just replace bad parts and do some lubricating.

Hopefully, this will be the case with yours too. Looking forward to helping you fix it (hopefully!).
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html


heviarti
User


Jul 17, 2010, 6:30 AM

Post #64 of 98 (4219 views)
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Re: [Barry777] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

  Well, I've gotten some response from the unit, but not near 100%. It wasn't set to local, so I set that, no dice. starting from the top left, both meters light, 2 bumps with the select switch. Tracking is set in the detent (fixed?) Tape door is open after attempting to insert a tape. After playing with the input switch (I set it to black) the slot LEDs came up. Eject LED on, nothing on cassette size? Auto off red, SVHS green, TBC operate and genlock green, Servo Lock green, CTL pulse orange, Audio all green, TC VITC and DF green.

Control panel first segment L-R top to bottom: Audio monitor MIX, HIFI, Video Input LINE, Counter TC, Remote local. Knobs all centered.

second segment: no light, no response

Counter: No response, Preroll and REW lit.

Jog control: No light, no response.

Under the panel: (freaky, as I cycle the power I get different LEDS.... i've got lamps on each segment lit now...)

TBC: UNITY all, knobs CENTERED. TBC On, Menu set on, PB Y enhance 0dB, Sync video, Rec mode SVHS, Video out norm, AGC off, knob centered.

Some board in the first slot:
ID preset Off, VITC REC off, NDF, FREE, REGEN, INT, AUTO.

and after trying switches and cycling the power a few times.....LTC is lit orange and that's it.

power on. LTC lit, slight buzz, no response. Head spins about 2/3 of a turn.

tbc boards are rather warm. Output board LED goes red for a second, and shuts off the same time the head stops moving.

one screw is out of the plate covering the load tray. somebody's been screcking with it.

I'm gonna go in and pull/reseat all the boards, and hit 'em with the dielectric grease. Y 688 board not present.


heviarti
User


Jul 17, 2010, 7:10 AM

Post #65 of 98 (4218 views)
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Re: [heviarti] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

OK, been through all the boards (this is beautiful... it's like an MVME chassis!) No popped caps I can see. Can't find my flashlight to see if there are scuff marks in the sides of the Y 688 slot. Tested all the fuses in the fuse board, all good.

I pressed the load door lightly and moved it back into the shut position... Load tray is down with door shut... wierd. Need to make sure timing is right.

I guess next I best go in and check all the block connectors and hit 'em with the grease, 'less'n you have a better idea.


Barry777
User


Jul 17, 2010, 11:15 PM

Post #66 of 98 (4213 views)
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Re: [heviarti] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Sent you an e-mail about preliminary troubleshooting, as my login times out and I lose everything when I write my usual full-feature books on here. By the way, the tape door does close when the tape is loaded on most pro JVC's. More in your e-mail. How's that cool cat doing?
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html


heviarti
User


Jul 18, 2010, 4:51 AM

Post #67 of 98 (4211 views)
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Re: [Barry777] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

 Quig ran outside, and is probably going to end up dying without the disinfecting treatments I was giving him. I had to go and bale hay and there was noone to help me catch him. For being three legged he moves pretty fast. Sneaky little bugger just HAD to go outside... :(.

Have you tried writing your replies in notepad and copy/pasting them into the submission form? I use the basic editor, and I've let a submission sit for eight hours and submitted successfully. Tried the basic editor?

I pulled those boards... no change. Here's a wierd one... I lifted the tape tray, and put a vhs tape (A Walk In The Clouds) in... pressed it down, and cycled the power. I figured maybe a tape present would alter things... it did. All the LEDs under the time display were on and shut down top to bottom, left to right, one at a time. Then it occured to me.... All the rods that yank the tape around the head drum are in the rearmost position. I think among the other tasks I need to reset all the mechanicals. Maybe that will account for something too.. any pointers?

I'll check the CPU board this evening. Does the missing Y 688 board account for any wierdness? I was looking for blown caps and didn't see anything... I generally see obviously blown caps on computer motherboards. I also looked at the dip switches.. everything with a 'norm' setting was set to it.


heviarti
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Jul 18, 2010, 5:42 AM

Post #68 of 98 (4209 views)
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Re: [heviarti] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

  Well, I have MAJOR improvement. I've got a proper bootup, and the display is working... the machine is still not 100% however.

I removed some boards as per Barry's instructions... Didn't change anything, and I noticed one of the codegen board's ears was bent. So I straightened it up with a set of channel locks and reinstalled it. Now it boots.

I don't understand what it's doing right now. I have a tape in, and when I power up the time display begins running backwards from 24 hours, and I have tape motion. The stop and standby leds are lit. when I try to play or rewind I get error 71, 72, or 73. squalls a little.

I think I'm a heck of a lot closer to having this machine up.


Barry777
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Jul 18, 2010, 3:46 PM

Post #69 of 98 (4205 views)
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Re: [heviarti] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I think at this point, all you have is a few minor mechanical quirks which can probably be fixed by simply playing around with the machine some more, and letting it cycle a bunch of times. The mechanism is probably sluggish from not being used in years, and should get smoother each time you go into the various modes. I'd give the machine a 5 minute break every 10 cycles though, just to be safe and keep the loading motor from overheating.

I wouldn't worry about the counter running in reverse; you'll notice that there is a negative sign when it appears to be running in the wrong direction in relation to the tape - must be some kind of thing with the editing function. These pro machines have so darn many functions and features, they take a while to figure out. Your tape will also run forwards and/or backwards for a few seconds before the machine is ready to actually use - it's part of the preroll function, and ensures that the picture will be stable at times when it otherwise might not be on a lesser machine.

Fault 71 is the capstan, 72 is the supply reel and 73 is the takeup reel. Since you don't always get the same code, that's a very good sign the mechanism is okay and just needs to be smoothed out, maybe lubricated. The actual wording of the codes is "motor failure", but all it means is that it's not sensing the proper action - I'm sure the motors are fine. A sluggish or balky mechanism can make the motors appear defective to the CPU. I'd say just keep messing with it and don't take anything apart yet.

How does it do going into PLAY mode? Do the guide posts act quickly and smoothly wrapping the tape around the drum? Does the mechanism appear to strain or stall during any of the functions? The squealing noise suggests that it's hanging up somewhere and it might need a lube job. This would likely explain the fault codes, as even a momentary stall can activate the fault condition and prevent further operation. Recycling the power will reset the machine for another try.

I think you'll have the whole machine running properly today - and this is a further testimonial to my favorite VCR repair axiom: It's probably something simple. But it sure sounded like multiple electronic failures when you first tried it! Incidentally, you can get a new pinch roller for this unit if it appears cracked or slippery - it's part number PR-14 at www.studiosoundelectronics.com It's only about $6, so I replaced all of mine, what the heck. Thankfully my BR-S800's and S500's have the same mechanism anduse the same roller. I have an easier way to replace it than the procedure in the manual also.

Even after then mechanism clears up, I would plan on giving it a lube job fairly soon, to prevent too much wear on the loading cam (that large round gear with the snakelike channel), as this would be an impossible part to find. I'm pretty sure you can lubricate that channel from above. In fact, there's very little under the mechanism so you shouldn't need to pull it. That's another nice thing about JVC pro machines - very easy to servce. The only reason I really HAD to pull the transport was to replace that surface mount cap on the drum stator board to restore the PG pulse and get my servos back in sync.

I've found a syringe filled with lithium grease to be the best way to lubricate a VCR - you can pump a small plug of that stuff right into that loading cam channel, without getting it anywhere you don't want it to go. Another little shot where any gears mesh, and a thin coat along the guide post channels. To get at the underside of those channels, simply use a Q Tip and apply some to the sides with an upward motion - this will deposit the lubricant underneath, then the guide posts will spread it when they do their thing in PLAY mode. Easy and cheap insurace against excessive wear.


I finally started copying my lengthy editorials just in case. Though it's a simply, cheesy program with few features, I've been using WordPad as long as I can remember - since it's guaranteed to be on any computer I run into. You know me, the passionate lover of "easy and simple"!
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html

(This post was edited by Barry777 on Jul 18, 2010, 4:23 PM)


heviarti
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Jul 18, 2010, 4:12 PM

Post #70 of 98 (4201 views)
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Re: [Barry777] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

  I think the DXU series is newer than the U series, so it surely can't have been sitting all that long... Of course I have a habit of hauling things out of the junk and putting 'em to work, the most notable being a hundred year old seed cleaner.

The reason I'm a bit wierded out about the counter is because it *keeps* running, and so does the tape and the counter appears to be reading code at operating speed. If I let it, It would run to the end of the tape. I'll go in and lube some stuff.

The moment I put a tape in it wraps it, and begins running. I don't think it's playing, because I see nothing on the audio meters, and the light above 'stop' is on. Tape is running. Standby light is on, hit standby, tape and counter stop. Something beneath the head drum sounds awful... like a trolling motor with weeds in it. when I hit play, it goes clicketa-clack, the little arm to the left of the tape bounces, the head drum halts, '71' appears, the auto-off led comes on, and the tape keeps moving. Rew? '71'. FF? '71'. Using the jog causes 73. counter starts at 23.59.59.29 and runs backwards with no -. Just used a reset, and I'm getting audio meters. Tape got to the end and it spat it out... WTF? I gotta go bale, so I dunno if I'll have 'er fixed today. seems to be autoplaying, and reading the time in reverse.


Barry777
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Jul 18, 2010, 4:50 PM

Post #71 of 98 (4199 views)
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Re: [heviarti] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Depending on settings, the counter WILL run continuously so there's nothing amiss there. The instruction manual explains all that goofy stuff. What it's doing is running continuous time code independently of tape motion, which is the way some editors like to work it. You can also set the machine to auto-play, auto-eject, etc. 23.59.59.29 sounds like the very end of its range (23 hours, 59 minutes and seconds, and 29 of 30 frames) if that helps any. I can't think of a reason the counter would start at the end though - but I think there's nothing wrong once we get things set correctly.


You can do a full factory reset by powering up the machine while pressing COUNTER RESET and EJECT at the same time. This will restore all menu settings and put the machine into a state we can understand and are more used to. I think that might clear up a few of the quirks. Keep in mind that the head drum will spin and the tape will wrap even if it's not playing (no tape motion). It will unwrap the tape after 5 minutes of no activity. You can set the machine to eject at tape end, or rewind, etc. It's all in the menu settings.

If I have time today, I'll drag out one of my machines and write down what the STANDBY and other controls normally do. Believe me, these machines are VERY confusing, and it's easy to think something is wrong when it's just either a menu setting, or something I don't know about. Since we're not professional editors, there's a lot of stuff on these machines we don't know anything about. The biggest piece of advice I can offer at this point is to study the instructions. When I'm "into" using these machines, it's not uncommon for me to sit and read them under the pretense of watching TV with the wife. I'm sure I've read the whole thing 5 times, and have already forgotten most of it.

I'm not sure if the machine should be "dead" when the Auto-Off LED lights - I think that state only disables the front panel controls, and you have to recycle power. Of course, the drum shouldn't be making any horrible noises, I hope the bearings haven't gone bad. It might just be laboring, or trying to speed up and slow down repeatedly from the servos being out of lock. The "clickety-clack" also may not be a real problem, as it also does this a few seconds after turning the machine on.


I still think the machine is okay, and that someone has messed with the menu settings. Doing a factory reset will fix that, then you'll know if you have real problems or not. Let me know if you need me to send you the instructions - you pretty much need them with this machine.
You might also try again removing the Time Code board - right now it's only adding unnecessary complication to the mix. Hopefully the bent ear didn't touch anything on the servo boards which are directly underneath. I'd leave the TC board out until you have the rest of the machine working properly - same with the TBC boards.

Having the instructions is EXTREMELY important on the 822 - can't stress it enough. I added just the instructions to my website for you: www.barrys8trackrepair.com/JVC.html That should be a much small file to deal with than the entire service manual.
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html

(This post was edited by Barry777 on Jul 18, 2010, 6:06 PM)


Barry777
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Jul 18, 2010, 5:13 PM

Post #72 of 98 (4196 views)
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Re: [Barry777] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

On a happier note, I got my first job in from the newly-fired-up-again website, and should finally be able to get my Alesis BRC in the next couple weeks, to sync my ADAT machines to the VCR's. Money has been tight because of the bathroom floor project, but revenue from the repair business is for buying toys, not paying bills. Control freak speaking!

Once I get the BRC, there will be some serious messing with the 822's, so I should be a half-ass expert on them soon. The bench will have (3) 822's, (2) ADAT's, the BRC and the editing controller all hooked up together, plus probably a couple homemade boxes here and there. This project has been about a year in the making, so I'm starting to get a little excited.
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html

(This post was edited by Barry777 on Jul 18, 2010, 5:46 PM)


heviarti
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Jul 19, 2010, 4:53 AM

Post #73 of 98 (4189 views)
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Re: [Barry777] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

 I got back from baling about 20:00. I've been fooling with my machine and feeding cows. it's 22:30... Less cows to feed, we shot Shmoopy in the head... or the mobile butcher did, anyhow.

I performed a reset (counter+eject) a couple times. I also located the source of the squalling. I lubed the plastic drum with the cam slot in it, the tracks, all the things attached to the tracks with a shaft running in a slot, and the arm with the wheel on it above the camming drum.. it runs up and down on a shaft.

The squall is coming from a motor in the upper right , facing the machine. The arm with the roller wheel engages it. There's a brass cap on the shaft, which is vertical, and when I grab on to it the pitch of the noise changes, and I can feel the squalling.

I'd drop some oil down there, but the shaft directly contacts the tape. So far while the machine is on that motor has never shut off.... I left it sit a while to see if the tape would unwrap.

I did get different behavior from the display, by altering a switch setting CTL shows the minus sign, TC shows the code starting at 23:59:59:29... UB shows nothing....

more later.. I hve a huge headache and need sleep.


Barry777
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Jul 19, 2010, 5:14 AM

Post #74 of 98 (4187 views)
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Re: [heviarti] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's the capstan causing the squeal, and you should definitely put one drop of oil as low as possible on the shaft where it goes down into the chassis. You can wipe off any that may get on to the higher part that touches the tape. Doing that might eliminate the capstan failure fault (71, I think it was), as it's binding. You might harm the bearings if you don't lubricate it. For the capstan, it's best to use actual oil, 3-in-1 or similar since it's metal-to-metal. If that doesn't eliminate the squeal, then you'll need to also put some at the top of the capstan. If you can't remove the cap, maybe you can turn the machine upside down so it can settle into the cap area. That's easier than removing the capstan for now. If the squealing won't stop after lubrication, you can try removing and cleaning it. This of course requires pulling up the mechanism.

The constantly-turning capstan is probably normal operation except during PAUSE. That way the machine doesn't have to wait for the attached flywheel to ramp up to speed. We'll see how it goes after lubricating the capstan - I think we're close to having the whole thing fixed as long as the capstan bearing is okay. Can you spin it with the machine turned off (the capstan shaft)? This will give some idea of its condition. It should spin easily, and keep spinning when you let go.

Also, can you reset the counter in any of the switch positions? And the most fun part of all, have you gotten a picture on the screen yet in PLAY mode?
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html

(This post was edited by Barry777 on Jul 19, 2010, 1:17 PM)


heviarti
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Jul 19, 2010, 4:53 PM

Post #75 of 98 (4182 views)
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Re: [Barry777] IT'S HERE!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

 As soon as I read your post, I used the screwdriver trick and put a drop or two of 0A1 oil in it. I'll let it run a while, but i'm having doubts as to whether it'll solve it, because it pulls down real easy.. not much reistance is needed to make it grind and howl. I did let it sit and run with the oil on it for five or ten minutes, to see if it'd work in.

I made a try for video, and didn't get it. I got a few blips, but that's it. However I'm not surprised, considering that it is playing (not rewinding) at an extremely rapid pace. I do get video from the machine: time code and errors. I need to make a try for the hour meters.

what bugs me is stop doesn't work.. not does pause.The only way to make the tape halt in this freaky mode I'm in is standby. If I hit pause, the pause and play lamps go on, and the tape begins moving rapidly (about ten seconds of tape per second)

I ain't gotten play mode yet. everytime I go for any other mode than the one I'm in it's all about error 71. I did get counter reset to work in either TC or CTL mode... (whichever one drops the zero from the tens place in 'hours')

Capstan spins a little, then bounces back. I can hear something that's a little chundery underneath when I spin it. I may need to take it down and get into the motor. I'll have to order some Slick 50 manual transmission treatment, and mix about a thimble full in the 0A1 oil and put it in the bearings in the motor.

BTW, slick 50 manual transmission treatment does a heck of a job on bearings. We had one of those old 'hockey mask' heaters. The fan motor started squealing LOUDLY. A little oil? sucker was squealing again in two days. Enough of that stuff to cover a needle? Never made a noise again. Does good in transmissions too :)

I gotta go change some water and maybe go work on my cadillac. with any luck I'll get a min to work on the machine today. I'm thinking more and more I might have to get under the mechanism.

I am getting audio meters, but no audio. I even plugged in a set of headphones.

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