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jts1957
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Aug 7, 2009, 1:29 AM

Post #26 of 141 (4481 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

Next try Pin #1 of P704 = ~120V
Top end of R404 (end NOT connected to pin #3 of T401 = ~16V

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bogart219
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Aug 7, 2009, 5:45 PM

Post #27 of 141 (4476 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

JTS, Using same cold ground as before Pin #1 of P704 = 119.5VDC Top end of R404 = 15.15VDC Bottom end of R404 (connected to pin 3 of T401) =8.68VDC.

Also found fusible resistors R415 and R455 both checked ok.

(This post was edited by bogart219 on Aug 8, 2009, 9:30 PM)

bogart219
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Aug 9, 2009, 9:17 PM

Post #28 of 141 (4458 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts, Here is some measurements so far.

Turn set on. Voltage at Drain pin on Q401 = 8.45 VDC.
Voltage at collector pin of Q404 = Voltage jumps all over the place (on DC scale), couldn't read it.

JTS, Using same cold ground as before Pin #1 of P704 = 119.5VDC Top end of R404 = 15.15VDC Bottom end of R404 (connected to pin 3 of T401) =8.68VDC.

Also found fusible resistors R415 and R455 both checked ok.
Some other measurements I took.
http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc344/bogey219/power1.png

http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc344/bogey219/POWER2.png

What do you think?

jts1957
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Aug 10, 2009, 4:34 AM

Post #29 of 141 (4451 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

Photo #1: You had "Heater" / lit screen before - R910 removed? Not "sleep-working" are we?

Photo #2: Up to 20% tolerance (unless otherwise specified) is O.K. on measurements.

Not sure what to make of Collector Q404 voltage. Supply is stable.

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Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Aug 10, 2009, 4:37 AM)

bogart219
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Aug 10, 2009, 7:59 PM

Post #30 of 141 (4447 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi JTS, No,no R910 was actually missing/not there. Never had heater or lit screen after I reinstalled hyperboard. It was listed on the print and on the board it showed a spot for it. I didn't touch it. This print is for the 65hdx82, but its supposed to be for the 57hdx82 also. Maybe they left it out on the 57". Shouldn't I have 30VDC on pin 2 of T461? What can we check now? Thanks!

(This post was edited by bogart219 on Aug 10, 2009, 8:05 PM)

jts1957
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Aug 10, 2009, 11:27 PM

Post #31 of 141 (4443 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

The tv worked fine except for the zig-zag issues.

The resistor was there for your first post on this thread, but done did get up and walk away since then? You're the only one working on this set, you should know.
T461 Pin 2 is B-Plus (122Volt) for H.Output.
See if any SMPS voltages are missing or off by too much.

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Location: Far, Far Away

bogart219
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Aug 11, 2009, 2:26 AM

Post #32 of 141 (4437 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

"The resistor was there for your first post on this thread, but done did get up and walk away since then?"

Don't know what your talking about here. I just talked about R910 a day or two ago for the first time. You sure your not getting me mixed up with someone else?

"Shouldn't I have 30VDC on pin 2 of T461?" I made a mistake here I don't have 30VDC on pin 9, which I should right?

JTs, Exactly what components make up the smps and can you tell me what section of what print its on?
I will check that T461 for all voltages! Thanks

jts1957
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Aug 11, 2009, 3:02 AM

Post #33 of 141 (4433 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

One of the photos you posted was indicating R910 missing.
The 30VP-P (Peak to Peak) you are talking about is (according to the print) used for the CRT Heaters. No CRT heaters equals NO light, picture or the "zig-zag" issues you observed on the screen before you started this whole repair?

SMPS: Block diagram (pg 65) - bottom left corner. Remember you can click on any portion in blue dashed lines to go there. Virtually any connector leaving power/deflection board may be convenient point to test. What kind of meter were you using for H.Out Collector? ("Jumps all over the place?")

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bogart219
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Aug 11, 2009, 11:02 AM

Post #34 of 141 (4426 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

JTS, "What kind of meter were you using for H.Out Collector? ("Jumps all over the place?") I'm using a Fluke 73 III multimeter. Is this maybe why my meter jumps all over the place when measuring the collector of Q404?
http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc344/bogey219/power3.png

jt, when testing for voltages in the smps, should I use a "hot" ground as a reference for my black meter lead?
I will get more measurements and report back. thank you!

(This post was edited by bogart219 on Aug 11, 2009, 11:45 AM)

jts1957
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Aug 11, 2009, 1:30 PM

Post #35 of 141 (4423 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

That's ~120 volts Direct Current (DVM) WITH a 1200 volt Peak to Peak (Oscilloscope) "signal" superimposed on it (Page 92 waveform #6). I presume your Fluke can handle it without being fried (look at ratings - usually by sockets for meter leads - definately in owners manual specs.)?

On page 87: Use COLD ground as long as you are measuring to the right of T862 - T840 - Q842 (you can sort of make out a line from top to bottom of schematic).

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bogart219
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Aug 11, 2009, 2:09 PM

Post #36 of 141 (4420 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

JTS, You said "(you can sort of make out a line from top to bottom of schematic)".

I see that line and understand what it means now:)
My fluke only goes up to 600VDC.

Can I use this point when measuring ac to the left of T862-T840-Q842?
http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc344/bogey219/livearea.png
thanks

jts1957
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Aug 11, 2009, 3:08 PM

Post #37 of 141 (4418 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

You're slipping back into your old ways - again! Stay out of the infield! Wink

You mentioned in an earlier post that you had 213V on a 220V test point. That leads me to believe that you have (at least) one scan-derived secondary voltage. To have this you apparantly have horizontal drive/high voltage.

Why are you even worried about AC area when the last thing I asked you was to confirm if ALL SMPS secondaries are present? Point you indicate would be a reference for measuring AC voltage from top pin of AC plug through to top pin of D840. (D840 "-" would be "reference" for Q840/Q842 pin 3/4 side)

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bogart219
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Aug 11, 2009, 3:24 PM

Post #38 of 141 (4416 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

Opps, sorry:( I will just concentrate on smps. Don't want to slip back into my old ways:)

jts1957
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Aug 11, 2009, 3:35 PM

Post #39 of 141 (4415 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

Getting back to R910 for a moment: Isn't it mounted to the Power/Deflection PCB? And isn't the Hyper board mounted on the Signal PCB? Two separate boards...how can it go missing? Anyway measure BOARD to ground at each side of R910: Flyback side should show continuity (winding) - Heater side should show continuity (filaments). Unplug P404 (or all 3 CRT boards) and you should NOT have continuity.
The above will prove TV is wired the way schematic indicates - Replace resistor! (or get back to me).

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bogart219
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Aug 11, 2009, 4:16 PM

Post #40 of 141 (4413 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

"Getting back to R910 for a moment: Isn't it mounted to the Power/Deflection PCB?"
R910 is on the print and there is a spot for it on the pcb,
(power-def pcb), but its not there. Looking at the parts list, I seen that R910 is notlisted!
Yes hyperboard is on signal/converter board.

jts1957
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Aug 11, 2009, 7:10 PM

Post #41 of 141 (4411 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

Does it "LOOK" like anything was ever mounted there? Could there be a jumper wire spanning those two foils? If it "looks" like something WAS there, it could have shaken loose when you tipped the set face down? Try the test i mentioned.
I also noted Not in parts list, even not in Supplemental manuals list.

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(This post was edited by jts1957 on Aug 11, 2009, 7:13 PM)

bogart219
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Aug 11, 2009, 8:58 PM

Post #42 of 141 (4406 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

JTS, Here is the latest. "Does it "LOOK" like anything was ever mounted there? Could there be a jumper wire spanning those two foils? If it "looks" like something WAS there, it could have shaken loose when you tipped the set face down?" Doesn't look like anything was ever mounted there.That GJ910 jumper is right next to the spot and on the underside of the board share the same solder pads.
Tested each side (The holes)of where R910 was supposed to be to cold ground. Got continuity whether P404 is plugged in or not . Used emitter of Q404 as ground.

Some other measurements: BB10, all voltages seem present Z801= pin 1 &2=120vdc pin 3 6volts. P813=pin1=32 vdc pin4&5 =10.6vdc
Used my beckman benchtest meter and read 120vdc on the collector of Q404 . My fluke couldn't read it for some reason.
I've did notice that large heat sinks for the 2 convergence chips on the signal board were getting pretty warm. This was the first time I had the set on longer than a minute or two . I probably had it on this time for 5-6 minutes. I think my hand brushed up against it. What do you think?

(This post was edited by bogart219 on Aug 12, 2009, 1:03 AM)

jts1957
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Aug 12, 2009, 1:11 AM

Post #43 of 141 (4400 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

Voltage on F850 (16V); Pin 8/9 of P813? (Maybe ~40V); BB10=BB11: Pins 1/2 (7V); Pin 6 (5V); Pin 12 (32V); Pin 14 (-32); Pin 15/16 (-16V).

Heat sink that Q404 is secured to gets warm after 3-5 minutes?
[url=http://www.smiley-sign.com]

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(This post was edited by jts1957 on Aug 12, 2009, 1:16 AM)

bogart219
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Aug 12, 2009, 10:22 AM

Post #44 of 141 (4395 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

Voltage on F850 (16V) = Yes

Pin 8/9 of P813? (Maybe ~40V) = 33 volts

BB10=BB11: Pins 1/2 (7V); Pin 6 (5V); Pin 12 (32V); Pin 14 (-32); Pin 15/16 (-16V).
1&2=7v 6=5v 12=30.5 14=-31v 15&16=-16v

Heat sink that Q404 is secured to gets warm after 3-5 minutes?

Yes, I could that it was getting warm.

jts1957
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Aug 12, 2009, 6:40 PM

Post #45 of 141 (4392 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

1) Does the set have OSD (On Screen Display). When you press menu, recall, etc.?
2) Get yourself to your local hardware emporium and obtain a Neon lamp AC tester. Try to get one where the neon bulb is as close to the outside as possible.
Insulate the metal probes with electrical tape. Hold lamp bulb against the "coil" of the flyback and note if lights and how brightly.
3) could one or more pins of the Hyper module have been bent or broken?
4) what was set on, Input-wise? Could it be on a unused input?

So far with the exception of not seeing lit filaments in the necks of the three picture tubes and not knowing if there is any high voltage present ... everything else is indicating the set should be working!

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Location: Far, Far Away

bogart219
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Aug 12, 2009, 10:34 PM

Post #46 of 141 (4389 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

1) It has osd, when the sets working
2) I got one of those laying around somewhere. I do have a fluke 80k40 high voltage probe however.
3) Anything is possible, but with the way that socket is designed it seems that would be unlikely
4) When I turned off the set to start this repair it was on video 4, which is the input I use for my cable box.

JTs, question: I don't see any voltage at at pin9 on T461.
Shouldn't I see 30volts here. Isn't this pin the one that supplies power to the heater(Pin1 on p404)? also would this be an AC voltage being this is a transformer?
If no heater voltage, that won't let the high voltage come on in order not to damage the tubes. Is this a correct statement?
Thanks for sticking with me on this Smile

jts1957
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Aug 13, 2009, 12:04 AM

Post #47 of 141 (4386 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

1) Do you have OSD - Now?
2) Measure HV then. How Much, if any?
3) What is normal display (picture and audio) when on video 4 WITH NOTHING BEING INPUT?

AGAIN:

Quote

The 30VP-P (Peak to Peak) in RED ink on schematic you are talking about is (according to the print) used for the CRT Heaters.

Peak to peak is a measure of signal amplitude NOT DC!

If you DO NOT have any input to this transformer you will NOT have:
1) High Voltage
2) Focus voltage
3) ABL (Automatic Brightness Limiter)
4) 220 volts DC to pin #5 P404 (You said you measured 213V)
5) HAFC
6) Heater Voltage

Do we have an Oscilloscope?

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bogart219
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Aug 13, 2009, 12:58 AM

Post #48 of 141 (4383 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

1. No
2. Where should I measure this at with my HV probe and what ground point to use?
3. Good question. From what I remember if I selected a different video input from the remote to one I didn't have anything hooked up to I think the screen would be black but at least the OSD worked. I was wondering about that.
When I started this tv up after my repair, I had no inputs plugged in. I expected to see a raster screen full of snow,(like on single tube sets) but got nothing. I then hooked up everything like it was before I started this repair ,with my cable box and rgb cables and it didn't make a difference. The remote will turn the set on and off but thats it.

I can borrow a scope off a friend of mine probably.

So is it true that the only input voltage to T461 is the 122 volts on pin 2? Is this input voltage AC or DC?
What voltage should be at pin 1 P404? Thanks

jts1957
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Aug 13, 2009, 2:13 AM

Post #49 of 141 (4382 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

Page 18. Can't recall whether FBT wire can be disconnected at FBT or just at divider. Just for the heck of it you might want to insert the lead into a glass mason jar and try to see if set otherwise works (sound, filaments, etc,). (Remember you're dealing with approx. 20KV - 40KV - can "jump" more than 1 inch through dry air) reference regular ground (always assume reg ground - I WILL let you know otherwise).

Most mfgrs will either "blank" the screen of set or produce a solid color screen on a "No signal" input condition. Most sets wiil come up with the settings same as when the set was last turned off. If you KNOW the exact button/number of presses to return to "Tuner" do so OR always fire up with something connected and turned ON to each input.

If this doesn't give us a clue, you may want to "borrow" scope. How's that neon light coming?

122 volts is the main DC voltage applied into the primary winding of the flyback. The horizontal output induces 1200 volt peak-peak pulses into the same primary winding

Pin 1 of P404 would be 30 volt peak-to peak train of horizontal pulses. Would look similar to the waveform I mentioned in a prior posting but much smaller in size.

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bogart219
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Aug 13, 2009, 11:14 AM

Post #50 of 141 (4377 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to]	Can't Post

OK, JTS just to make sure.
"reference regular ground (always assume reg ground - I WILL let you know otherwise)." by regular ground to you mean the ground i've been using to do my testing, cold ground, emitter pin of Q404?

"Just for the heck of it you might want to insert the lead into a glass mason jar and try to see if set otherwise works (sound, filaments, etc"
Not sure what you mean here. If I get the HV lead disconnected from the flyback, stick it in a jar (to keep it safely out of the way) then see if any thing works? If I got this HV wire out of the fly, couldn't I then stick my HV probe in where it came out of?
Without any display on the set, I can't tell anything or select anything as far as inputs are concerned.
I'm getting a neon tester
I'm going to borrow that scope.

Thanks JT!

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